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Thanks Linda for the clarification, I will read the article. I really should have known it would not be as simple as a list of Saponi names. My family is really a mystery, finding facts on ethnicity is tough.
Shirley
Linda wrote: I had hoped that the data I’ve collected for the past two years, showing how extremely high the coincidence of Blackfoot ID surnames with names that occur in the research of southeastern Indian families, particularly those suspected to be Eastern Siouan, would have demonstrated that this is not something “vague and without historical connections.”
What’s particularly baffling is how frequently you find this ID in people who were dispersed well outside of the southeast BEFORE it became a household word, who nonetheless trace back to the southeast. We can find hundreds in Ohio and thousands in Missouri, from historically discrete communities, both of which are well documented genealogically to the Piedmont Eastern Siouan, but who left the southeast LONG before the period you speak of. How can that be explained? Doesn’t that make it a logical impossibility to dismiss this connection?
You may be misled about how ubiquitous this ID is because you’ve lived in the southeast yourself. In other parts of the country, it’s not a common ID. I lived a long time in the midwest and the west coast, and never heard it. I had often heard people identifying themselves as Cherokee, though, so it’s not like people werent’ talking about the subject.
Did you see the data I came up with for a sample period, of the people who’ve contacted me with the ID? It’s on this thread.
http://www.saponitown.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=579
Linda,
I wanted to bring this thread back. Before I found a cousin who said our Gibson’s were Saponi, SE Blackfoot etc, I had never heard of the names. The only Blackfeet I knew of were those in Western Montana/Canada. Thanks to you Linda and others here who have done such wonderful reseach to help us find our roots.:)
Shirley
I was told by my family that our people used to plant corn, beans, and pumpkins together.
Not sure if this is the type of thing you guys were looking for in searching for farming practices.
Also there seems to be a story or two about a type of sausage they made in a big pot which was layered with lard, herbs, and meat. This concoction was kept out in the open with out means of refrigeration. I have wondered how it was able to be eaten into the long weeks it is said to have lasted.
Alcohol distilling or moonshining also seems to have been a big pass time among some of our families. In fact the Fort Smith records show many of our relatives in cases of liquor charges with various aliases they were known by.
The other uncanny thing about these families, especially the Johnson family, is that they seemed to have been assignees to a vast number of acerage in Arkansas. (i.e. especially William Johnson)
I have been told that both the Collins and Johnsons had the ear of Hanging Judge Parker at Fort Smith. The i.d. of “blackfoot/Blackfoot” has been in these families as well “Pony/Pawnese”, Osage, and Cherokee. Crow was also a designation that was handed down, however it was always said not to be a tribal designation. Perhaps it was a reference to a clan affiliation of some sort.
Collins DNA: David Colins of “1750” is directly descended from the same family as Vardy Collins and thus “Old Thomas Collins”. What is true for David Collins of “1750” is going to likely be true for any descendent of “Old Thomas Collins”.
Another interesting factiod:
The Collins, Johnson, and other associated families that ended up in Missouri seemed to have had a fascination with dynamite and self armament. There is a story in a local paper in Missouri dating around the turn of the century regarding an incident involving the accidental explosive power of stockpiled gunpowder and explosives. Needless to say never think wet gunpowder isn’t flamable.
Aggression and Fighting:
This seems to have been a natural coarse of life among these families to squabble, fight, and generally have some wild rukus or other. There is an article in the West Plains Quill that talks about a family reunion that ended in a general millet with all partipation from men, women, and children.
Warnings From Authorities:
Another strange and mistifying truth is that back in Missouri these various families live in pockets. I have heard from several family members that police will not even venture into certain areas of the hills where these communities are located. One family member was even warned not to get shot in those areas because the police would not likely respond.
Schools:
In the past their have been schools that were started by the family up in Missouri for the community. Schools like the Singing Bird School and Round Top School. I have also heard stories about Collins children being singled out and picked on for being a Collins in the public schools. This still happens to this day in the public school system in those areas.
Religon:
Most of our families are Christian of some denomination or other. Mainly Baptists, Charsmatics, and Methodists. There are still a few that practice the old Indian ways and many keep the herbal things that have been handed down.
Dances:
It has been noted by local historians that the Johnson family often held Indian dances and that during the drought time had special dances.
Ailments:
Skin, Ovarian, Breast, and Prostate cancer seems to be a norm among our people as well digestive disorders such as acid reflux disease, and esophogial disorders. Diabetes and lactose disorders are present as well. Another disturbing ailment that afflicts is stroke, black outs, and blood pressure problems, allergies to anasthetic (i.e. needing more to do the job), and Bachet’s Syndrom. The most common of these ailments being cancer, diabetes, and digestive disorders.
Geography:
Where ever our people ended up they usually resided near forested hills and rivers/creeks. No matter what state they resided in, (VA, N.C., KY, TN, AL, GA, IN, Ark., MO, TX, OK), this was always true.
Complexion:
The complexion of our people has varied from white to dark dark brown. Very often the tent of our people has depended very much on the season and level of outside activity. Although most can and do pass for white there are some that leave outsiders guessing as to nationality.
Hope this information helps in accumulating statics.
I was told by my family that our people used to plant corn, beans, and pumpkins together.
Not sure if this is the type of thing you guys were looking for in searching for farming practices.
Collins, that would be what is known as the three sisters. Pumpkin is a type of squash….and all three are planted together because they support each other. It makes a delicious soup when cooked together with a few extras added. I just made a pot a couple of days ago….and Forest makes a pretty good recipe as well.
And I am sure if they had a type of sausage that they cooked, it was probably smoked to keep it from spoiling.
As far as living near creeks/rivers, that was probably more for survival and transportation than anything. When you settled in, it was wise to have a water source, and a good defense angle for your home.
Have any of you looked at this thread I started?
http://www.saponitown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3050&highlight=blackfoot
It basically discusses the modern census data and all of the people who claim to be descended from ancestors of a certain tribe.
The funny thing is, there are a lot of “BLACKFOOT” in Missouri, Virginia, etc.
My guess is these are not all descendants of the Blackfeet of the northwest but are in fact connected to the Blackfoot of the southeast.
Just thought I would throw something out here. Many of us have Scottish or Scots-Irish ancestry. There is a meaning for Blackfoot in Scotland during the 1600s that has something to do with marriage.
Techteach
So in this circumstance, a proxenata, “or, as it is called in Scotland, black-foot” is someone that procures. Is that the same as a merchant or is it more of a black market procurer?
It is interesting to think about in that if the Scottish used this term or applied this term “black-foot” to procurers, I would further wounder if the term may have been applied to a slave hunter or scout?
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