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There has been a lot of research and connections being made off of this thread, primarily between Derrick, Linda and myself. I think we have some good connections. I’m going to prepare the post when I have some spare time and hopefully that will give someone what they need to find more. I wish I had more resources to do the legwork…LOL
Thanks everyone again1
Linda, Grandma should be back this week. I talked to her the other day and it didn’t seem too promising. Have you noticed that with your lines? There seems to be no good genealogy….
David 🙂
Derrick prepared this database of Webbs who settled on the Tar River. Not far I’m guessing from where our Webbs are today…. It looks like some of these names are our Webbs. Can we do the genealogy on them? Derrick has traced his Waccamaw Webbs to these. They show up down there with other Tuscaroras at the same time. They believe that the Webbs were Tuscarora, their lines left our area and joined them to the south.
Are they our Webbs too?
Col. Webb—1680? /Berti Co 1701 born before 1710, m bef 1727, d/o Joseph Regan
Martha (Ragan) Webb (spouse of John Webb)
Richard Webb–/ Berti Co 1725/ Bertie Deed bk B pg 95. James Moore witness the transfer of slave by Richard Webb, of Nansemond Co, VA to James Wood Witness: James Moore, Feb ct 1725
Anthony Webb—1711/ Bertie—1732 Deeds 550 Acers from Geo Nicholson “Billy Bank” adj to Pitt Bladder, George Smith, John Williams Witness to Richard Williamson will in Prince Anne Co, VA
Anthony Webb—1711/ Bertie—1733 Registers a cattle Brand
Richard Webb—1714/ Bertie– 1735 Will of James Moore, proved 1735 “plantation where I now live, also my land on fishing creek” adj Richard Webb containing 300A
Anthony Webb—1715/ Bertie—1736 1736 150 A on Horse Swamp, Witness Anthony Webb, James Overton, Nathaniel Nicolas.
John Webb Jr—1737/ Bertie– 1737 Will of Thomas Jernagan of Bertie Thomas Jernagan to John Webb Jr 540 acers Witness to deed of Thomas Jernangan
Anthony Webb– ? / Bertie—1739 150 A horse Swamp
William Anthony Webb—1718/ Bertie—1739 Registers a cattle brand
Anthony William Webb—?/ Bertie– 1740 sells 275 Acers to Nataniel Nicholes. Tract lacated between Samiel Webb and Nicholas in NW parish
Anthony William Webb– ? / Bertie—1740 275 Acers to Samiel Webb
Anthony Webb ?/ Bertie– 1741
Samuel Webb– ? / Bertie—1744 Onslow County Records 1734-1738
Samuel Webb– ? / Bertie—1744 Buys Land
Anthony Webb– ?/ Bertie—1750 1750: Planter. Death. Names Wife Martha, Children, Samuel, William Priscilla, Keziah, Anne Spouce: Martha
I’m not experienced with land deeds, etc, so I might be lookign right at something and totally miss it. LOL
David
Hey David,
James Moore is mine with Richard Webb on Fishing Creek this is in Edgecombe County.
Linda
Some recent photos of my immediate family:
My Dad and Sister–
https://saponitown.com/forums/wp-content/uploads/vb/images/dwebb-dad-melissa.jpg
My Sister and Niece (taken by herself)–
https://saponitown.com/forums/wp-content/uploads/vb/images/dwebb-melissa-ariana.jpg
Also please check out the Glover research thread (my dad is a Webb and a Glover). We need help with it…. LOL
At this point we have made some interesting connections on our family. The main lesson I’ve learned: listen to your elders! I distrusted what I was told and questioned my Uncles and Aunts saying that we are Tuscarora and Blackfoot (never knowing the Saponi connection). Although we haven’t substantiated a Saponi connection, we have found a lot of evidence indicating that our Webbs are Tuscarora. Mostly related to land deeds (they were living with other Tuscs, and some of our famfily split to show up with the Waccamaw along with other Tuscs). We also have a few surnames married into our family that tie in with the Tuscs. I’d like to try to follow the Taylor line along with Forbes among others.
Looking at my family you can tell we are mixbreed Indians. WE HAVE ALWAYS KNOWN IT.
🙂
It looks like we might have a breakthrough on our family.
<<<<"By the 1680’s most of these Portuguese slaves and their children were living on the lands of the Gingaskin Indian tribe in Northampton. Court records reveal that the Portuguese Payne, George, Driggers (shortened from Rodrigus), and Francis/Cisco (shortened from Fransico) families had married into the Cross, Press, Bingham, Jacobs, and Jeffery Indian families of Gingaskin, and also that the white servant families of Harmon, Webb, Brooks, Beckett, and Carter had intermarried heavily with both Portuguese and Indian. Out-migrations of some of these individuals to such areas as Surry and Louisa Counties in the mid 1700’s resulted in intermarriage with the Bunch and Goins families who later also resided in Robeson and surrounding areas. The Francis family intermarried with the Chavis family in North Carolina in the early 1740’s, just as the Jacobs, Jefferys, George, Harmon, Carter, and Driggers did with the Bass, Perkins, Gibson, and Sweat families. It is quite obvious that the Indian-White-Portuguese mixture was pronounced even before exposure to the reservation Indians in Bertie County. (15)”>>>>
–Portuguese and Mulatto were two synonyms for mix-blood Indians and so-called Tri-racials during this period as you probably know.
Line 15 of the notes, with citations reads:
<<<<"(15) Northampton County, VA Orders and Court Minutes 1690 to 1774. Records consistently identify the Payne, Francis, Cisco, Harmon, Mongon, Beckett, George, Driggers,Webb families as “mulattoe”, while the Bingham, Cross, Sunkett, West, Daniel, Fisherman, Jacobs, Jeffery families are identified as “Indian.” Records show that all of these families intermarried heavily, had extensive social interaction, and all resided on the Gingaskin reservation land.”>>>>
Source: http://sciway3.net/clark/freemoors/lumbee.html
DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW TO ACCESS THESE RECORDS?
Last night Linda explained to me that the Gingaskin were from Northern VA, probably Algonquian (Algonkian). I’ll look them up. There was a lot of movement and displacement of Natives during this time– many breaking off, some living with whites and mixing, but most joining larger, intact Native groups. The Tuscaroras were one of these groups.
We have traced our Webbs to Bertie County, with some lines from Northampton. It appears that they were in close association with Indian groups, primarily Tuscarora as they were moved around, my family was right there. Then some Webb lines show up down south with the (present-day) Lumbees as they first deeded land there. (Many of these Lumbee also came from Bertie, and are Tuscarora in origin) Those Webbs came from Bertie–It is all fitting together.
The whole article is great. On the bottom– note 15, it sites its sources on the Webbs. I’m sure they were primarily Indian at this point. They mixed with “White servants” with the Webb surname. It appears that they remained in close contact with other Indians, thus increasing the blood quantum. I know my family still looks Indian to this day. We have known that we share lines and a history with the Lumbee and Waccamaw. We share many of the same surnames, mostly by marriage, which shows an association.
I also found a genealogy site which indicates that a Blount left something to one of my Webbs in her will. I’ll do a separate post for that.
David
David,
Have you seen any Barnes in your lines yet? I have found 2 lines of them in my direct lineage from both my Amason and Rogers line. By the way I talked with one of the clanmothers of the southern band again and told her of what I have learned since I spoke with her last and she said Woah!!! OK NOW YOU ARE TALKING lol I have found 7 Tuscarora lines to date and I don’t think I am done. Heck David it’s no wonder we look the way we do and why so many others at home look this way too. I thought everyone looked this way until I started traveling around this planet. Btw when I was in college one of my roommates was a Duke from southeast Virginia just thought I’d mention that since you found Dukes in your lines. I remember some Barnes from school and Stricklands too. You might want to look into the Farmer and Eason families because they married into the Taylor, Rogers, Barnes, Woodard and Amasons and probably the Webb to since we are all in the same area. David if anyone who lived in Saratoga doesn’t have at least one Tuscarora line I would say they had to have been living in a shell or inbreding LOL I think many Yawpin Indians lived over in Nash County with the Saponi. I took a look for some Glover and David they look like they mixed with the Yawpin quite a bit. My folks seem to have kept pretty good records except my Rogers line to be honest I think this line started out native. I think most of these lines regardless of what tribe they were met on Indianwoods reservation and many moved together. I am finding so many connections to the people of Robeson County that it’s startling to say the least and with the resemblance between my Rogers and the Rogers from down that way I don’t think it was all that long ago we separated.
LINDA
I need to join one of these genealogy pay-sites. Unfortunately, I don’t have Internet access at home (because I enjoy living in the middle of nowhere). I honestly need to find where to begin with researching all of these lines. I think Bill gave up on us because our ancestors blended so well! I’m just not good at the searching yet because I have no resources available to me. Maybe I could hire someone? Linda what do you think?
I know the answers are waiting to be found. Just look at us! LOL. WE ARE NDN! We just need to search these other lines. Europeans have been trying to make our race disappear since they first arrived. Part of this required our ancestors to hide out and blend. Although we made every outward effort to blend, we still remembered our identity. Thats why these records are so hard to find. Here is more on that: (Our family fits in this tri-racial research, but we probably don’t have much african in our lines if any. You might note in the prior post, in the article i cited it states that the Webbs were White servants who mixed with the Indians on that reservation. Our Waccamaw cousins don’t believe there is African in their Webb lines either.)
Taken from a book by Angela Ragiy
<<<<Unlike the extensive records to be found in the Five Civilized Tribes, there was a deliberate effort of the United States to eliminate other tribes by officially eliminating them from the Federal Census. In the early 1800’s it was not uncommon to learn that many tribes were simply “terminated”. As a result, among those families where Indian ancestors lived, they were frequently listed as mulatto, or as white, depending upon the complexion of the individuals enumerated. This official “termination” gave the impression that the population in the United States was either black or white. This challenge in locating Indian ancestors from this region must be clearly understood by the family historian from the beginning.>>>
<<<<She emphasizes that the intermarring of members from one mixed family to another mixed group was deliberate and that mulattoes not only intermarried among themselves, but also with families of known Indian-white descent.>>>>
<<<<it is critical to note that a possible pitfall exists here for the genealogist. This search for Indian ancestors from the tri-racial isolates might steer the researcher into a frantic search to proove or disproove a specific racial composition. It is essential to keep the focus on the search for the names of those ancestors, regardless of racial composition. Dr. DeMarce spoke very tactfully of the fact that her research would not have been published several years earlier. This may have been particularly because of the unpopularity that her researcher would have had for those who would not have wanted their mixed ancestry to be known. It is also possible that the researcher might not go beyond finding the origin of the family stemming from the tri-racial isolates, and not truly isolate the Indian ancestor. Fortunately, there are some leads that may assist the researcher in this effort.>>>>
<<<<The Indian Elment: The most critical phenomenon regarding the Native Americans of the Upper South was the fact that there was an effort made at Indian extinction. Although disease brought by the European settlers had a dramatic effect on the native population, and thousands of Indians died, thousands also survived. The references made to the extenction of Indians are sometimes even more difficult to dispute due to an elimination on paper of the Native tribes. When census counts were taken in the early 1900's those with Indian ancestry were frequently listed simply as mulatto, meaning black and white ancestry. However despite this several nations still survived. DeMarce points out that the following nations of Indians contributed to the tri-racial isolate groups:
* Chickahominy who were reported “extinct” by 1760, but are still there.
* Gingaskin in Accomack and Northampton, who lost state recognition in 1812.
* Mattapony who managed to keep their land.
* Nansemond who were reported “extinct” by 1786, but are still there.
* Nanticoke who are said to have moved to Canada, and absorbed the Delaware Indians but are still there.
* Nottaway who were “terminated” in 1824, but are still there.
* Pamunkey who managed to keep their land.
* Rappahannocks who were reported extinct in 1722, although modern descendants still live in the vicinity of the original tribal territory.
* Saponi of Orange County Virginia…later found among the Tennessee Melungeons.
* Weanock who were terminated with the Nottoway.
* Werowocomo who were still on Virginia’s York River in 1919.>>>>
<<<<Of course, if one has the benefit of oral tradition in their family, some critical facts can be obtained in advance about ancestors.>>>>
<<<>>>
David,
I think Saratoga was a bi-racial isolate lol You don’t hear people talking about people like us…wonder why that is? Most Webb researchers think John Webb and Theresa Duke were white and I think I agree. They seem to think the ndn entered this Webb line after these two. Some of the Webbs do not have ndn blood but they say many of them do because they married into it. They seem to think in Bertie and then again in Saratoga. Webbs were Irish.
Linda
David,
No.
I thought you two were researching your related lines rather well and didn’t need any additional assistance.
Bill and David,
I have started calling Saratoga, NC a bi-racial isolate:D Wonder why folks don’t talk about these places? Probably cause we don’t make an issue out of who we are…we just know it. Very quiet and very reserved (well most of us):p I cannot tell you guys how good it is to finally know most of the truth. Now it’s time to learn our culture that was taken from us. I feel at peace for a change. FINALLY
oo-neh,
Linda
Thanks Bill, I appreciate the compliment! You have been such a great help to my family and without you we wouldn’t have ANY of our info. (I hope you know that my saying you gave up on us was in jest.)
Most of the research I’ve been doing has been through talking with other Webbs and online searches– good old Google. LOL. Unfortunately, at this point I don’t have the resources to do any real genealogical work. I was considering hiring somebody, but I know thats expensive. At this point what I’m trying to do is link my family to the lines that are known Tuscaroras in NC. I found one tie to King Blount, but it concerned a 3rd person and a will. I’d like to tie my family blood lines to one of these names. We already have Taylor, but you couldn’t trace their line any further right? I know you have a knack for mentally tyeing everything together.
Here are some NC Tuscarora Surnames (From the Southern Band of Tuscarora Website): ADAMS* ~~ FLOOD ~~ OVERTON ~~~ ALLEN *~~ GARDNER/GARNER ~~ OWENS* ~~ AUSTIN/ALSTON ~~ GEORGE~~ PERRY ~~ BAKER* ~~ HALL* ~~ PHELPS ~~ BARNES* ~~ HARRIS* ~~ PIERCE* ~~ BARNEYCASTLE* ~~ HAYNES/HAYES*~~ PUGH/PEW ~~ BISSEL/BIZZEL ~~ HICKS* ~~ REYNOLDS* ~~ BLOUNT/BLUNT~ HUNT* ~~ ROGERS* ~~ BOONE* ~~ HOGGARD* ~~ ROBERSON* ~~ BOWEN* ~~ HUGHES* ~~ ROULEITTE* ~~ BROWN* ~~ JACK/SON* ~~ SAWYER ~~ BUTLER* ~~ JACOBS* ~~ SEARS* ~~ CAIN ~~ JAME ~~ SMITH* ~~ CALE* ~~ JENKINS ~~ SULLIVAN ~~ CASHIE – FATHER OF CHIEF CUCKLEMAKER, JOHN CALE – ~~ DUNLAUXE ~~ CASTILOE* ~~ JONE ~~ SWAIN* ~~ CHERRY* ~~ KEYS* ~~ TANN/TANIS* ~~ COCKLEMAKER* ~~ KITCHIN ~~ TAYLOR ~~ COLLINS* ~~ LEE/LEIGH* ~~ THOMAS* ~~ CONNER/CONNORS* ~~ MANLY* ~~ TURNER* ~~ CORN* ~~ MATTHEWS* ~~ VANN/VANI* ~~ CUMBIE/CUMBO ~~ MITCHELL* ~~ WALKER* ~~ COTTON* ~~ NEWSOME* ~~ WILLIAMS* ~~ CROCKER/CROCKET* ~~ NEWTON ~~ WILLIAMSON* ~~ ELLIS* ~~ NEWMON* ~~ YOUNG ~~ EVANS
Linda, Nya’weh! I Think you’re right about the bi-racial aspect of Wilson. I know the Webbs stepped of the boat White, but I’m not sure at what point they began mixing. Derrick has found a pair of Webbs, both single males from England that were in the early colonies. These may have been our ancestors. I think that they began mixing early on, and continued to maintain close ties with other mix-bloods. In my last reply I cited a source which states this was common. Communities of like people tend to stay together– and this is the case with Edgecombe/ Wilson. I know that several of my lines MUST tie into native lines (primarily Tuscarora, but also possibly Algonkian, and Siouan). The evidence is too obvious– starting with our appearance (see the photos in previous post). Now we just need to find evidence in terms of documentation, which is difficult because our Webbs did everything they could to hide their “Indian-ness.”
Linda, how did you find all that you know?
Oo-neh,
David
David,
I started by questioning my family then I went to the courthouse. My sister also did alot of leg work on some of our lines. My sister however did not know how to figure out if they connected to native people so I have worked to do just that. I went on a search for our living relatives who still are parts of indian communities as you know I found them.
Linda
David
On that Tuscarora Surnames list you recently posted, I noticed the name Cumbo, which has appeared on the forums before. A search with that spelling does not link to another posting about the will of William Eaton, whose son Thomas inherited (among other things) his plantation called “Cumboes” in Northampton Co., NC. Bill Childs posted the Eaton will on a “William Eaton and Johnson” thread, last November. I just mention it because property records sometimes locate people more precisely than lists, like tax and militia lists. I don’t know that this plantation would locate some specific Cumbo.
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