Popularity of Western Blackfoot ?

Excellent points! 🙂 I just took someone else’s word that the Siksika were part of these shows, I never dug into it. Thank you, Bess. And why wouldn’t there be a slew of people claiming to be Pawnee or whatever, if it’s that kind of phenomenon it was?

i think there is an assumption that was made when i brought this topic up originally. 1) that the source for the content was based on popular venues like the wild west shows, and that b/c of wild west shows “blackfoot” became popular. I would mention that “cherokee” is also THE most popular designation for ID and was not apart of the Wild West Circuit.

Ill restate the idea again, but it is just an idea.

At a cetain point in the mid 1800’s icons began to emmerge about the “wild west” and the frontier cultural myths/icons began to be replaced. IE: Kit Carson takes the place of Daniel Boone and son on. during this time and forward, publications concerning the west, as well as exhibitions like Buffalo Bill’s “Wild West”, and collections from indian country tour America and europe. Popular names emerge – such as Kit Carson, Buffalo Bill, and Wild Bill as indian fighters. similiar enigmas exist concerning bank robbers like billy the kid and other opposing forces like wyatt earp.

Popular culture embraces these names and romantic ideas. the names of people, tribes, and places (ie: Wild Bill, Sioux, OK Corral) have continued into the 20th century. Several venues were very popular, among them was the wild west shows; others included exhibits at the Smithsonian by George Catlin, and collections like those of Peabody family. Some of those popular names become houshold words, where previously they have been marginal. Touring shows make material more available, as do publications like Harpers Weekly.

My point was that the Blackfoot (or Feet) become name among household names for indian tribes because of exposure. we surely do not hear “peigan” or “blood” as the cultural markers we have been discussing or “sissapaha” as

the tribal place of an indian ancestor. Nor do we hear of other obscure names like Youghtanund or Miami for that matter. Essentially we hear names like “blackfoot” because of many elements. For reference, Check out Harpers Weekly for stories illustrated by Frederick Remington or Charles Russell, both of whom spent time amongst Blackfoot in the 1880’s.

The point to make and the data to obtain, is a reference that is as widespread as this type of material prior to this period. Hence the scanty existance of Blackfoot town in MD, “blackfoot came from this word in this language”, and this band of rogue Seneca was known as the “blackfoot”, etc

is hard to connect with the huge existance of “blackfoot” as a designation as tribal origin.

Once again, I make the point to say that while i believe “blackfoot” is an ID for further investigation of Multi racial populations, i do not believe it has been passed down as a surviving tribal ID in most cases. Most people will not agree on this forum, but im speaking from an academic / historical perspective on this issue. “blackfoot” has grown into its own identification, but is vague and without historical connections in most cases. Ill be very pleased i f a solid smoking gun arrives. until then, i stand by the idea that there are plenty of adequate available tribal originations that have good historical availablity for descendancy that are being overlooked because of the “blackfoot” matra. The same holds for “cherokee”. I would say that they are popular in Americana for people of many different backgrounds to latch onto in the past 150 years as a passed down source from indian relations. at some point tribal consciousness was lost and a new ID becomes the result. We have seen it too many times in the past not to recognize this because of oral history alone. Oral history is extremely valuable, and in connection with migration patterns, land records, census data, historical accounts, and period maps a broader picture can be painted. Unfortunately for the “blackfoot” material, mostly what has come to light from a very recent past is only the oral history – which by its nature is in a state of flux.

statistical data from census records (similar to what I proposed –somewhere else on this forum — recently) could be collected that would greatly help to settle this . . . it could be done.

Hey all –

Linda first let me say i think your work has led much creadance to the blackfoot ID. Second i think maybe we are saying the same thing in a different way. let me see if i can hit your points so that we can be in agreeance.

a) “high the coincidence of Blackfoot ID surnames with names that occur in the research of southeastern Indian families, particularly those suspected to be Eastern Siouan, would have demonstrated that this is not something “vague and without historical connections.”

a1) Indeed, i think the important material here is the connection of surnames, identification to Eastern Sioun and to the southeast – not blackefeet. I think blackfoot is a cultural marker, like cherokee, black dutch, tuckahoe, etc. The geographical origin is the key, an area devoid of some important tribal representation.

b) “you find this ID in people who were dispersed well outside of the southeast BEFORE it became a household word, who nonetheless trace back to the southeast. We can find hundreds in Ohio and thousands in Missouri, from historically discrete communities, both of which are well documented genealogically to the Piedmont Eastern Siouan, but who left the southeast LONG before the period you speak of.”

b1) correct again, the ID is available to people who have dispersed, well before the mid to late 1800’s. all with available surnames that pool to eastern triracial groups. The dispersal and the Blackfoot ID are not rooted together. one does not begat the other. the groups disperse whether or not they ID themselves as Blackfoot now. They disperse earlier than the term exists. (“BEFORE” as stated above, thats my point) the groups ID themselves as SAponi, Blackfoot, Cherokee, ETC now – however, concerning blackfoot – we have no evidence that “blackfoot” was used during the dispersal time. Blakfoot ID helps us look at these groups as possible origins in the south, and to look at eastern Sioun – but not to identify them as “blackfeet”. No more than if we began using an “eastern or western” Portuguese to describe a missing tribal people. the part that is missing is not the Portuguese, but rather who these people ID’d as Portuguese truly are.

c) “You may be misled about how ubiquitous this ID is because you’ve lived in the southeast yourself. In other parts of the country, it’s not a common ID. I lived a long time in the midwest and the west coast, and never heard it. I had often heard people identifying themselves as Cherokee, though, so it’s not like people werent’ talking about the subject”

c1) I know we disagree on this subject because most of IDs from outside of the South and northeast are “white”. However, my own experience has been a huge “black” presecence in the blackfoot ID in the deepsouth and inner city north; but ironically not on this forum – that may be due to other unfortunate social conditions having little to do with the ID existing in those areas. I would also say in the same vain, that outside of those areas there is not a large “black” population to frequent the “black”foot ID on that basis alone. I would assume the term to be more rare – because it is my belief that there are some interesting “cherokee / blackfoot” divisions within modern races.

In the end, im looking for the historical reference to “blackfoot” as a place and a group that would would be the birthplace of these exodus peoples of the south. i dont think there is one, because it did not exist historically. hitorically these groups may have come from other groups, as with tutelo or saponi – im comfortable with that. “Blackfoot” exists later as a familial memory of once belonging to a tribal designation. if we can find more than peoples memories extending into the 1700’s, we’ll be in business? i mean there are “some” references to a “blackfoot ID” here and there from manuscripts, maps, etc – but they have very little connection to one another, and even less continuity. we have more of a “blackfoot consciouness” now than we do historically. the family histories are strong connections to one another, the paths lead to the South from blackfoot ID’s, but they dont start there as blackfoots.

I didn’t follow some of what you were saying, Itconani. Let me ask some questions.

a1) What did you mean by “The geographical origin is the key, an area devoid of some important tribal representation.”

b1) I think there is some evidence that the name predates the dispersal. Just as there is a band of western Sioux who called themselves Blackfoot, there is no reason to dismiss the theory that a band of eastern Sioux had that name. Especially since the word “Sissipaha” may well translate to that. BTW, I think I’ve found out more on what that may mean. In Lakota, the word “he” (with a gutteral ‘h’ sound) means mountain. If you pass through the town of Saxapahaw, it’s damn near mountainous. There’s no record of what the word mountain was in Tutelo, but if it is the same as Lakota, as most basic words like this are, then the Tutelo for saying blackfoot mountain would be “Issi asepa he.” Also, I think if you saw the context of some of these family reports, they are clearly conveying this as a very old name, as in “great grandma’s great grandma told her . . .”

I don’t expect anybody to concede that I’ve “proven” anything conclusively at this point. But I do expect that the theory not be dismissed.

c1) Actually, “most of IDs from outside of the South and northeast are white” isn’t what I’ve seen. My impression is that half the people I’ve come across are white, half black, but this is not a subject that comes up most of the time in the context of the emails I’m sent. Maybe ten percent of the time people’s present racial categorization comes up, then it’s an even split racially, I would say, no matter what part of the country they’re in. Also, let me clarify that these are not forum people I’m talking about. Few of them are present here. They are people who have privately emailed me because they came across the website and the Blackfoot article I wrote.

In any case, the name/migration patterns remain the same, whether people are presently identified as white or black. When it was “Blackfoot Town, MD week” and I heard from three different people out of the blue in the same week (actually four families were involved since my own family’s in that mix) who were in that vicinity, two ladies had very similar stories in their families about “escaping” to there. One was black identified now, the other’s presently a white Arizonan. The black lady’s family said they “escaped to Blackfoot Town,” The white lady’s family said they “escaped from Virginia.”

I think it’s hard to dismiss the implications of three separate bits of evidence agreeing, 1) Blackfoot ID, 2) origins from the historic “Blackfoot Town” and 3) the word “escape” in family legends on the subject. What are the probabilities that this kind of coincidence would be occurring randomly? And in this context, since Dagsbury, DE was known as Blackfoot Town, MD from the 1740s to 1780s, we do have it documented that the name does not predate the dispersal. http://www.sussexcountyonline.com/towns/dagsboro.html

I just responded without thinking — I was wrong — you can just make an educated guess if nobody challenges it or if it is reasonable, I suppose.

prob of Blackfoot id — guess 1 in a million

prob of origin in Blackfoot Town — guess 1 in a million

probability of “escape” in family story — guess 1 in a thousand

thats (1/1000000)*(1/1000000)*1/1000), or 1 chance in 1000000000000000 of these being “random coincidences. Now I’m guessing on the value of all three variables. I can say, as a mathematician, these are not random occurrances — IF all information provided in the e-mails to you are true.

The problem I see is proving Blackfoot means Saponi, and not some other group. But you’ve shown this in name origins, et cetera. However many groups may have fled to “Blackfoot Town”, not just Saponi.

Maybe “Blackfoot” was a generic term describing a method of farming, such as burn and slash before planting, and all Indian peoples on the East Coast used this method, perhaps, and early Caucasian settlers sometimes referred to these people — ALL INDIAN peoples, as “Blackfoot” because they’d been walkin on ashes. But since it was a slang word and not a reference to any particular tribe, it never was used in documentation or records kept of these people. So there are still other explanations that have not been eliminated. Maybe they can be eliminated, and maybe you are right.

Were the Saponi known to be in the state of Delaware during the time that Blackfoot Town was founded?

vance

Linda,

Where is this Dagsbury town supposed to be in Delaware? The nearest I know of to it is Dagsboro, Delaware, in southern Sussex County, not too far from the coast. It was historically Algonquin territory (Nanticoke, Assateague, etc). This is no where near I-81 in the western part of the state of Maryland. Is there also a Dagsbury Maryland? For the Tuscarora to move north it would have been possible that they passed along that central Virginia route, or that they went by water up the Chesapeake and thence into Pennsylvania. I have never heard or read any account of them passing up the DelMarVa Penninsula, so another route would seem likely.