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Linda, Cindy, Brenda and all,
A distant cousin (Harman/Cook) did some lookups for me in Mifflin Co (Lewistown), Pa., library a long time ago. Some of the below info comes from local libraries and may be tained by the romantatism of the era they written and the obvious ones not repeated here; some info from George Washington’s Journals, some from John Logan’s Reports to the Colonial government (William Penn’s), works of various historians, principally Allan Eckert (wrote “Life of Tecumseh” and others) , etc. According to that local source, Logan (Talgayeeta) the “Mingo” lived 1/2 mile north of Reedsville at Tea Creek from 1766 to 1771. Eckert’s research indicates Talgayeeta moved to Logstown (Logan’s Town) on the Ohio River (Spaylaywitheepi) around 1772 (altho some claim this happened in 1770), in what became Beaver County. The 1770 date may be due (me) to Talgayeeta’s group having been known to live in a couple of places (Eckert) between 1770 and 1772.
Talgayeeta (Logan) was born about 1731, by his own & his father’s account (John Logan’s Journals), in Shamokin, at the great Forks of the Susquehanna (Pa.) and is known to have been the son of Shikellimus, a Cayuga born on the shore of Cayuga Lake in New York. Shikellimus said he gave Talgayeeta a second name, “Logan”, in honor of his great friend John Logan, Provincial Secretary of the Pennsylvania Colony. Shikellimus had moved south and established Shamokin to be nearer his friends, the English. After Shikellimus died, Talgayeeta declared his band neutral during the French and Indian War, unlike his fellow Cayuga. Probably due to the pressure from his people to join their war, he and his elder brother Taylaynee and a number of like minded Cayuga moved to the Kishacoquillas Creek Valley (Brown Twp, Mifflin Co?) and established an autonomous community, permanently disavowing all relations with the Cayuga Nation and invited like minded members of other Indian people of the area to join them. A “considerable” (Eckert) number did so and Talgayeeta gave his new group a new name – “Mingo”. Talgayeeta’s wife’s name was Mellana whose health was “poor” (Eckert) due to her having had smallpox when younger. Talgayeeta had a much younger sister named Koonay who married the trader John GIBSON after the move to Logstown (Eckert).
About 1772, most of Talgayeeta’s Mingos left the Kishacoquillas Creek Valley, broking up into smaller units and scattering, some settling along the Ohio River (present day Ohio) in a number of villages. Talgayeeta, his family, and a number of Mingo settled first into a Delaware village about 70 miles below Pittsburgh (Eckert). So many Mingo moved in here that the village came to be known as Mingo Town. When Bulltown was destroyed (see below), the Delaware moved farther west and the Mingo appear to have drifted away into the interior also, joining other established villages/groups or establishing their own. Talgayeeta soon moved again, this time to a spring on a terrace well above the Ohio River shore, just above the mouth of the Beaver River, which came to be called Logstown – where John Gibson and Koonay married and lived.
Soon thereafter (about one and a half years?), Talgayeeta’s group (about 60 members) moved again, another 25 miles farther down the Ohio to the Yellow Creek area (present day N.E. Jefferson Co but very near Wellsville, Columbiana Co., Ohio), on the trail leading west to the Forks of the Muskingum and hunting land in the valley of the Walhonding.
=====Background Notes=====
On April 30, 1774, Jacob Greathouse, his brother Daniel, Joe Tomlinson, Edward King, Joshua Baker (Tomlinson’s brother-in-law) and others (26 total) ascended Yellow Creek to Talgayeeta’s new town with the foreplanned intent of “killin’ injuns”.
[They had invited James Chambers to join them too, but he refused and when he heard what happened, turned them all in to the authorities in Pittsburgh but not much came of that due to other problems. (See Lord Dunmore’s War)].
Talgayeeta and a large group were out hunting and the Greathouse party lured Talgayeeta’s family to their camp on a ruse and slaughtered them from ambush.
This ended the the history of the “friendly Mingo” and began the history of the most unmerciless enemies of white expansion – the Mingo – a name that became synonymous with “hostile Indian”. At about this same time, a hunting party of Mingo were ambushed and killed at Captina Creek and Michael Cresap’s group ambushed a trading party at Indian Short Creek. Lord Dunmore got the War he was asking for.
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[If you look at a map of western Penn., Logstown was located about 25 miles N.W. of present day Pittsburgh, on the west side of the Ohio opposite present day Legionville. This is where the Ohio River is running N.W. and was where it takes a sharp turn to the west, before turning to the S.W.
Aliquippa’s Town was only a couple more miles downstream, both just before where Beaver River enters the Ohio.]
Kishacoquillas was headman of the Shawnee/Delaware village of Ohesson, later known as Poketytown, Old Town and Kishacoquillas Old Town and now presently called Lewistown, the county seat of Mifflin County (more Mifflin Co. history).
The Harman/Harmon people appear to have come to Mifflin Co from the Lycoming County area on the Susquehanna according to my take on the Early Penn Census, pre-1776. Surnames they married were Russler, Condren/Condron, Summers/Sommers, Osborne, Grose & Rothrock. The Summers and Harman people are noted as full Mingo Indians in the local history write-ups of Mifflin Co but I have nothing yet on the origins of the others, and the Harman people may also be related to one of 6 or 7 Harman brothers who immigrated from Germany in the early 1700s, local Mifflin County history notwithstanding. Family lore says only the Summers were Indian.
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“Captain” Bull :
In 1770 George Washington and Capt. William Crawford with a strong party of men, surveyed and claimed land at Round Bottom on a sharp bend of the river (Ohio) above the “Long Reach” (Round Bottom was about 30 miles downriver from presentday Wheeling, W.Va.) They explored further downriver in the area of the mouths of the Hockhocking and Muskingum and Little Kanawha Rivers that is bounded today by Marietta, Oh. and Belleville, W.Va. Because they had been told of the Delaware village of “Bulltown” headed by a “surly” chief referred to as “Captain” Bull, they did not venture up the Little Kanawha. Bulltown was located only a short distance up the Little Kanawha according to their source, so they continued downriver and passed the Little Kanawha without exploring or claiming. On Eckert’s maps, Bulltown was 3 miles (“up” the Little Kanawha) S.E. of the present day Parkersburg, W.Va., on the east bank, where present day Stewart, Wood Co., W.Va. now stands.
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In the Spring of 1772, the 7 members of the Adam Stroud (Dutchman) family was killed by Cherokee at “the Glades”, on the Gauley River (which emptys into the New River) Va/NC., far south of Bulltown. When the bodies were discovered, the news seems to have inflamed (scared) the whole frontier. A party of men lead by William White and William Hacker heard from a trader about the existence of Bulltown on the Little Kanawha, went there and took the town by surprise, killed Captain Bull and “five families of Delawares” (“about 20”) before the rest managed to escape. This remnant group alledgedly paddled down the Ohio to the Wabash, up the Wabash to the mouth of the White River, and established a new village 18 miles up the White River (present day Hazelton, Indiana) and settled there. Curiously, this is present day GIBSON County, Ind.
Altho this incident doesn’t seem to have any large historical significance in White history of the frontier, it marks the time of general movement of Indian people out of this area of W.Va. & Penn., and their resettlement deeper inside present day Ohio and Indiana. Talgayeeta (Logan) moved his people (“about” 60) from
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Possibly coincidental but also of curious note : Kanawha appears to be a Cherokee term, “Ka ! “, meaning approximately “Look out ! “, and “Na’-ha”, meaning a boundary or border, and would make sense if the Kanawha River was the northern boundary of the Cherokee hunting area prior to the 1750s, as it may well have been.
Bill
Thanks Brenda,
Looking back at some of my copies of e-mailings, I see where you have already explained some of this to me ….but I haven’t heard about Millie Johnson before now, again thanks. I would love to know anything more you might have on the Collins’s and in your email to me back in Jan. you mention Mullins’s along with Johnson’s being raised by Collins’s.
Now back to Griffin Collins, he had a son named Riley (whom was reported to be a Dalton) raised by Collins’s? Riley had a son named Berry ( born 1855) . I have pictures of Berry. Very native looking. Anyway, Berry was supposed to be born out of wedlock , but took his Grandmothers name????? Very confusing here. You have heard all of this before, but it has been awhile since we last spoke and I wondered if you had uncovered anything new?
Nancy
Bill:
I have been getting my Logan information from Eckert’s book too. I just could not remember the details, because my book was at home , and I was sitting in my office. I am embarrassed to say this after reading the details as Eckert outlines them (if he does so accurately – I believe most of his research but I question some of his fictionalization. At least one detail of his book does not match my genealogy. My member of my family married the widow of Captain Builderback of the Gnaddenhutten Massacre. Our story of his death differs from that of Eckhart.), and maybe I will now be banned from this discussion group, but if my uncle’s genealogy is correct, Joseph Tomlinson is my gggggrandfather on my grandfather’s side. The Blackfoot ID comes in on my grandmother’s side. Maybe this is justice – Tomlinson massacred Logan’s family. Tomlinson’s descendents, not to mention those of Builderback, because his daughter married into the Shawnee family I am descended from, married into native American families. However, the evidence of Tomlinson being my ancestor is not clear-cut. My uncle thinks he had another daughter Drucilla who married John Carpenter, mentioned in Eckert’s book who is certainly my ggg – something grandfather.
Cindy
Bill’s post:
{The Summers and Harman people are noted as full Mingo Indians in the local history write-ups of Mifflin Co but I have nothing yet on the origins of the others, and the Harman people may also be related to one of 6 or 7 Harman brothers who immigrated from Germany in the early 1700s, local Mifflin County history notwithstanding}
Bill, The HARMAN surname does ring a bell to me. It is rumored within the family that the Collins were origionally Harman. I could never find any proof of this but have it in my notes from an elder Collins researcher who died back in 1987. Eula Collins Conley worked on this line for over 50 years. Eula lived in Portland, Oregon. She had no children and did not work so all her time was devoted to family history. She authored a book called “The Clines of Minnisota”. Eula thought that the name change may have been due to a scandle in the family, possibley desertion durning the war, however, I was able to find that Meredith served in McDaniel’s Militia and went on to serve in the Montgomery Co. Militia and the DAR has errected a RW momumnet in Pike Co. Ky that includes his name. If he had deserted then his name would not be honored. IF there was a change in the name it appears to me it would have had to be before Meredith’s birth in 1760, possibly his father. I have never found his parentage.
You are saying that the Harman’s were Mingo Indians. The Mingo’s were known to be in the SW part of West Virginia and Eastern Kentucky where my Collins ended up.
Howdy Bill & others —
Thank you so muhc for clarifying these things. You have really got me to wondering now . . . 🙂 You just opened up another Pandora’s box . . .
My Richey/Wood/Dickson ancestores were in Gibson Co., In until 1844 or 5 when they moved to Powhatan, Lawrence County, Arkansas. There is that “Blackfoot Church” located in neighboring Pike County, Indiana. It was written on a historic marker above the Church that “Blackfoot Indians” were living there about the 1790s when the church was founded. Were they these Delaware refugees?
My Wayland Ancestors had been in Arkansas since 1815. While my Waylands were in Russell Co., before 1815, Virginia, one Gibson lived on their land and another was a next door neighbor. And another ancestor, Sarah Brown (sister to Josephine Broown, my great grandmother who married Jeffrey Richey), married “Tarleton Bull” in the 1870s or 80s. Dad (born 1915) said he met Tarleton on one occasion when he was a child and that he was a giant of a man, nearly 7 feet tall. Tarleton must have been an old man when dad saw him. He would have been dad’s great uncle. Census records say Tarleton was born in Missouri, but I know nothing more about the man. Bull is also a caucasian surname and so I don’t know what race the man was. I never asked dad and the subject never came up. It never occurred to me to ask him.
vance
Linda,
Yeah yall have been gracious enough to provie me with evidence for this, more that for any other tribal affiliation. I am thinkin’ after trhibal homelands were confiscated, that for Indian people from this region, it didn’t matter what tribe a person was from, to be Indian was enough and these people would travel with a group from any tribe.
In a thought experiment, if Earth were invaded by space creatures, wouldn’t even Israelis and Palestinians be willing to fight side by side to kick ’em off the planet? Neither the Palestinians nor the Israelis are cowards, they’ve both proven this time and again. They’d be forced to be allies. In the same way groups bein’ wiped out in North America who had been bitter enemies for centuries, would band together, don’t ya think?
vance
We know our own people did this with the history Bess provided about the uprising in the Delmarva area in 1743. Our Tutelo joined with the Seneca in a plot against the British, the one tribe they’d feuded with for centuries, to the point where there were more Saponi/tutelo captives amongst the Seneca than at home.
One of my favorite movies is “Red Dawn” despite its right wing anti-communist bent, because it provides just this mindset on how we’d all feel if our own continent were invaded and conquered.
Also, once the tribes had been neutralized militarily and had to subsist under the main culture, certainly by the time they were all speaking English, being “Indian” would have been the main thing between them, the cultural differences amongst tribes would have been lost anyway. I think that’s why so many of our ancestors are remembered only as “Indian.” That, and the obvious intermarriage that situation would have encouraged.
http://www.nku.edu/~tankerslyk/
This is Dr. Tankersley (sp?), the one with the “Brock” “Red Bird” webpage.
Those are impressive credintials.
vance hawkins
Impressive yes, HOWEVER,Ken Tankersley has been challenged on this Red Bird, Brock story for documentation and has not responded so this looks suspect to me. The old part I heard is Rhoda Sizemore d/o George all had the children by Red Bird, but I don’t know and have not seen the documentation that proves either theory.
I joined a Brock Research group that is trying to find documentation to prove or disprove. Most of us just want the truth. We are not interested in writting a book we just want to establish our roots.
Right now I am trying to find the church register of membership for the Matrimony Creek Baptist Church. The records are suppose to be housed at UNC at Chapel Hill, NC. If anybody can help with this email me at brendacollinsdillon@comcast.net
Brenda,
I found a description of those records and the U.NC file number – maybe this is available thru interlibrary loan?? Don’t know if they do that with “folders” – anyway, here’s the address:
http://www.lib.unc.edu/mss/inv/m/Matrimony_Creek_Baptist_Church
Bill
Thank you Bill, I sent request to the librarian but because I am not a NC resident and have no card I might not get very far.
I seen the surname RAY in one of your post. Do you know anything about that surname? Bradley Collins married Jane RAY in Orange Co. NC 1817. That is the only recorded record I have found on that couple. Bradley was the first son of my Meredith Collins. The first wife has never been identified. Bradley was born ca: 1787-1795 along with a sister. Meredith then married or took up with Mary HOLLOWAY about 1795 with their first child John W. born 1797 Wilkes Co. NC. The time between I have not found a location as to their whereabouts.
Any help appreciated. Brenda
thanks Brenda —
Well I didn’t know that. Thanks.
Ya know I also invited him to the new chickamauga_researcher yahoo group. We are seeking historical documentation of the Chickamauga, and have found the “Ohio Valley” Chickamauga mentioned as allies of the Miami and their confederation of tribes in Little Turtle’s War (c. 1790-1794) and other Cherokee were in that area in the 1750s (French and Indian War) and Lord Dunsmore’s War (1774 or 5 or adjacent years). From about this time until his death in the early 1790s, the Chickamauga were at war, off and on, with the settlers in Tn and Ky and even further north in Oh and In.
What I found said most Chickamauga Cherokee went to N. Al after they left the valley of the Ohio, and later many of these went to Arkansas. But from that Troxell website and the Brock site, some of them stayed in E. Ky. I have seen some of the same surnames on Troxells webpage that I saw in N. Al and in Ar., some that my family married into are at both locations, and so I was more curious about how these surnames wound up in all three places, especially since I found some documentation Chickamauga Cherokee went to all three places.
But some of those surnames are the same names we have been talking about here. I have a theory that some “Eastern Blackfeet” who went to WVa or the Ohio Valley region married these Chickamauga who were also in this area. Maybe during “Little Tuerle’s War” or before. Maybe Christian Chickamauga and Christian “Eastern Blackfoot” started attending the same churches. These would have been those “friendly Indians” Mr Jarvis speaks of as Melungeon, and the “friendly Indians” who accompanied Gerge Washington on his way to fight the French and Northern Tribes in the 1750s in the French adn Indian War. Maybe from the 1750s until the 1790s and deferat at Fallen Tumbers there was intermarriage and mixing. That is just an idea, though. Once the main body left the region for Arkansas and N Alabama that left the mixed-blood Christian Indians who were also mixed-tribe, in this region near the Eastern Mountains. Many of these probably were scouts used against the Miami Confederation. This “seems reasonable” but in’t proven by any degree other than the ability to imagine it as possible. But there seems to be some considerable supporting evidence.
Well to make a long story shorter, I invited Dr Tankersley to post there as I thought he could really help us — and he forwarded me his college page information, he said “thank you”, but that he had a “full plate”, and that he was very busy, saying he didn’t have time right now. This was just a week ago. Maybe you have to catch him at the right time.
vance
Vance,
Several years ago I did some research into those men that fought in the French & Indian War and also the DunmoreWar. I donated the information to the Nicholas County, West Virginia site. Here are the links to that information.
French & Indian War:
http://www.rootsweb.com/~wvnichol/bd/frenchindwar.htm
Note:
Other Companies of Rangers in service on the West Virginia frontier durning the French and Indian War were those of Captains: ( So this is NOT a complete list)
Christopher GRIST
John SMITH
Joseph FOX
John MCNEAL
Charles LEWIS
Samuel MEREDITH
Archibald ALEXANDER
Christopher HUDSON
Obediah WOODSON
Thomas FLEMING
Thomas BULLETT
James MCGAVOK
John ANTHONY
Robert BRECKENRIDGE
William COX
Alenander SAYER
John BRAGG
George BERLELY
_______TEMPLE
_______HUBBARD
Dunmore’s War:
http://www.rootsweb.com/~wvnichol/bd/dunmorewar.htm
Thank you Brenda —
I am just getitng to the point I realize some of my ancestors were in these regions and may have been associated with these wars. And it has taken me five years to get to this point! So you are years ahead of me. 🙂
I am also interested in anything I can get about “Little Turtle’s War” 1790-1794, especially any Indian Scouts who might be Eastern Blackfoot or Chickamauga/Cherokee or any Chickamauga or other allies who sided with Little Turtle.
Again thanks.
vance
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