- This topic has 14 voices and 132 replies.
-
Posts
-
melungeon wrote: Hey Greydove,
For what its worth I have Davis way back that married into my Stamper line.
Mary Polly Davis b. 1760 in Amherst Va married Joanthan Stamper JR. I have her father as Barton Davis but this is all I have at this time. Tari
Hey Tari, I don’t know if you and Dreaminghawk have seen this before, but anyway, I googled — Native American Indian Tribe Rockbridge Co VA 1800s–and this came up. My GGG-Grandparents–Margaret Jane (Templeton) Hart & Samuel Hart were married there 1821 and she was born there in 1799/1800. She’s the Grandmother my Grandpa told me was ndn. I just am trying to narrow down the Tribal possibilities. 😀 Greydove~^~ http://www.aagsnc.org/columns/mar99col.htm#6 [They moved to Alleghany VA by the 1830s & Nicolas WVA by the 1860s]
Hello All:) Been doin alot of ancestry search lately. Think [maybe] I have found my Samuel Hart. It’s not documented yet, but it’s the best match I’ve found yet. This website I found has Samuel as the son of Benjamin Hart b 1766 d 1816 Rockbridge Co VA m Rebecca Gabhart (no b or d dates) m date 15 May 1787. My Samuel Hart [GGG-Grandfather] b 1792 VA m Margaret Peggy Temple b 1799 Rockbridge Co VA m date 1821 Rockbridge Co VA. On this website I found it doesn’t list his b date but it lists siblings and has a Christina b 1793. I’m trying to connect this. The dates and locations are right. Anyway, I contacted the website owner and it went as follows:
Hello Linda, I was searching for parentage for my GGG-Grandfather Samuel Hart when I came across your website. I think it is him, though there are no dates for him, although, there is a b-date for his sister of 1793 Rockbridge Co., VA. My forefather was born in 1792 and I know he married my GGG-Grandmother in Rockbridge Co., VA 1821 (I have the marriage recd) They moved up to Alleghany Co VA sometime after that where most of their children were born. I just wanted to tell you what a beautiful website you have and that I will pursue the search for the connection. It seems a likely fit, but I have been close before and not had the right one–but this looks like a good fit. My prayers go out to you in your fight against cancer. I have Indian heritage and I am also looking for that so your website just blew me away. Please feel free to contact me if you’d like. Peace and Many Blessings ~^~ Donna
Hi Donna:
Thanks so much for writing. Certainly appreciate your kind words……………I have been cancer free now for 4 years…………….so am doing well.
Hope your Samuel Hart is the one that links into my family……………….if you have anything you can send to me, I would greatly appreciate it……..and will hang on to it in hopes of making a connection. THanks so much and do keep in touch.
My Wolfe family (Aumock) is supposed to be of Indian heritage too and that has always interested me.
Linda
http://eaglewolfe.net Here are a few more links for Virginia family ancestry search http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/va/vafiles.htm http://rwguide.rootsweb.com Blessings~^~Greydove
Is this maybe the same Benjamin?
Vol. II of Chalkley’s Chronicles of the Scotch-Irish Settlement in Virginia, page 111
Bailer vs. Gabhart–O. S. 110; N. S. 38–Bill, 1st December, 1805.
Orator is George Baylor, executor of Jacob Bailer, his (George’s)
father. Jacob bought land of Mathias Gabhart in Augusta. Conveyance
was not
112
made. Mathias is dead testate, but intestate as to his land,
leaving children viz: George, Michael, Peter, John, Hannah, Sally,
Catherine, since intermarried with Peter Wittinghill. Elizabeth,
since intermarried with Jonathan Intsminger. Peggy, since
intermarried with Benjamin Hart. Christina, since intermarried with
Peter Gabhart. Bill in name of Jacob Baylor says the purchase was
in 1780. Jacob was a German lately removed from Pennsylvania. (This
is bill 1795, filed in Richmond.) Jacob Baylor’s will recorded in
Staunton District Court. Mathias Gabhert’s will of Rockbridge,
dated 179_, proved in Rockbridge 5th June, 1798. Codicil 14th
February, 1798. Wife, Christina; eight children, viz: Hannah,
Michael, Rebecca, Peter, Elizabeth, John, Sarah, Christina; son
George, daughter Catherine have received advancements. Affidavit
23d March, 1809, that George, Michael, John Gabhart and Peter
Witlinghill and Catherine, his wife, are non-residents.
Hi Barbara, Yes, this is the same Benjamin Hart. Thank you for this look-up as it gives me another avenue to search for the tie-in to Samuel as his son. I appreciate you for taking the time to find this. If there is anything I can do to help you, please let me know. Happy hunting! For you my friend~~ 🙂 ~^~Greydove http://www.angelfire.com/ak/anakee/nativesearch.html
Sorry abt that link…3/4 of it is defunct. Couldn’t remember why I saved it from a while back. Good thing is the link on Blackfoot Youth–JJHawk–has an awesome rendition of “Free Bird” with flute. That’s why I saved it. ~^~Greydove :~)
Osiyo u-na-li-i Its kinda late in the nite, or I guess really kinda early in the morn, but I have been going over something in my search for the ndn blood into the one line I know for sure is ndn, just not what tribe. I might be grasping at straws with this and I should really probably research more before posting, but I’m going to throw it out there anyway. Hey, Bee, do you remember a while back, you asked me abt the variant spellings of the surname Bailes? Well, I remember that Bayles was one of them. When I ran across this, it kinda got me. I am not saying that there’s anything to it (there’s nothing more than family tradition) and this web-site I’m going to post the link to says that right up front, but has anyone seen this? Like I said, I only just found this, and there are alot of other people researching this in the Bayles and Ice clans. I ckd back thru my Bailes lineage and the date they give for this Mary “Bayles” I have listed as “mother unknown”. it would’ve been close to 1760s. Ck it out. I need help locating “Memoirs of Jeremiah Kendall” Peace & Blessings~^~Greydove http://www.bribling.net/nc.htm PS Bee- Nice Avatar:D
After-thought…Ironically, my GreatGrandmother, Mary Margaret Bailes Fitzwater was born at Nicolas Co WVA where my Grandpa was born who she named William Harrison Fitzwater. When he was abt 7 or 8 they moved to Indiana and first settled at Laraumie, Tippecanoe Co on the Tippeccanoe River. Grandpa always hated his middle name & would only sign it H. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tippecanoe
There are so many holes in the whole Bayless, Ice stories that it is hard to work through. So many twisted variations on the stories too. I “assume” (and I hate to assume anything) that there is a spot of truth in the stories, but know from personal experience that oral traditions often are a tiwsted and tangled mess with only a small drop of truth there-in.
I believe I read, and correct me if I am wrong…going on memory here…on some forum somewhere someone claimed that Mary Ice was found hidden in the bushes during the Point Pleasant battle. I do know someone was supposidly found hidden there anyway. I seriously doubt the story based on the thought that no one in their right mind would take their family to battle with them, Shawnee included. When I say family, I mean their young daughter, son, wife, grandparents, etc. Sure they took their sons when they got old enough, but I don’t think they looked at things as a Sunday outing with the family or as a spectator sport.
A large percentage of my ancestors was at that battle, and I have heard “hidden in cabins”, “hidden under the floor of cabins”, “hidden in the bushes”, etc. pertaining to my family as well. Hardly likely based on the fact that the only thing in Point Pleasant at that time was Fort Randolph and wilderness.
So if I am correct in memory about Mary Ice being the one found “hidden in the shrubbery” and adopted by the whites, then the story appears to hold no water. A drop of truth of her being adopted may be there, but I doubt if she was adopted Shawnee that this occured with finding her there hidden in the bushes. This reminds me alot of the “Liberty’s Kids” cartoon series where 3 kids show up at every historical event that ever occured to report the events in their newspaper.
“Harrison” and your ancestor hating it, could stem from about anything. I don’t particularly love my middle name either, but my son has my middle name because of my middle name, my sister-in-law having her first name being the same as my middle name, and my father-in-law having my middle name as well. It could be that he got ribbed for living in Tippecanoe with the name “William Harrison” Fitzwater.
My surname shows up on a Caddo Indian Census, but I don’t descend from the Caddo. At best the guy may have came from my line somewhere (undetermined), but may have not been connected at all.
But I am in the process of digging around on the whole Bayless, Ice, Kirkendall, stories. Actually I have been for some time now, but it is all so sketchy and the various stories online pertaining to these families only make things more difficult. Kirkendall has been said to have been a derivative of “Curtain Doll”, but I cannot piece that one into anything concrete. It is hard for me to believe that the Shawnee would even have known what a curtain was back in that time-frame to even have had a word for it in Shawnee. Seems if there was anything to that, it happened in the 20th century when someone decided to make the story sound more interesting to a young listener. Stoires often have those things happen in them.
Hi Steve-o, Yea, I know that you can’t believe everything you hear and as I’ve heard only half of what you hear and none of what you see. Thanks for your in-put on this. I welcome others opinnions and it gives me some perspective on different ways to look at things. Like you said, there may be a small thread of truth in handed-down legends and I think especially with the ndn-that is how they continued their family history-the “Story-Tellers” Can you say enhanced? Oh, I know what you’re saying abt not taking everything to heart, it’s just that we are all striving to connect to our true ancestors. As far-fetched as alot of things become it’s still something to explore them. About the cartoon characters, that’s just funny, you have a great sense of humor. My Aunt is 86 yrs now and she was with my GreatGrandma when she passed over. She told me she never talked abt her ndn culture. She just said that she lived a meager, simple life and believed in “waste not- want not” She gave birth to 11 children and raised 2 of her Grandchildren. That is the true essence of where I am from, not some fancy past hear-say legend. But, it would be great if there was a speck of truth, huh? Just want you to know, I take everything with a grain of salt, sometimes more than that. Call me a dreamer, if you want, but I do that sometimes too. I will continue to ck out this “story”. Blessings u-na-li-i (Friend) ~^~Greydove:D
Well apparently some people here think I am on the attack, which is furthest from the truth. I just say it as it is instead of coddling a person with kindness. Not your beef, so I digress.
But to the point, alot of the stories really range on what grandma said and people don’t want to think that grandma lied, and no one is saying she did. But often somoen before, during, and after grandma would like to add something to make the story more entertaining. It was said that my ancestor had the Shawnee living on his land which historically is unlikely as they were not in the area during that time, they were hundreds of miles away. So it seems unlikely that every day they would travel hundreds of miles to battle, then trek back hundreds of miles, camp out, then go hundreds of miles back to where they came from.
Another story is that my Shawnee ancestress lived at Point Pleasant and was hidden in a cabin. Either under the floor, in a closet, or wherever. Again that is false because of only the fort being in the area in the middle of what was essentially wilderness. Cabins never came to the area until years later.
So when I read about the Ice thing, where it stated she was at the battle hiding in the bushes, was discovered, and adopted, I seriously had reservations on that. Again, I have never heard of anyone taking small children into battle with them, native or otherwise. And still again, the whole “Curtain Doll” thing throws me a bit. But I am repeating myself.
It is quite possible that she was adopted into the Shawnee, who were pretty notorious for adopting, but the stories attached, no matter how “grand” they sound, most likely get twisted quite alot into something far from the actual event.
When I look at the rosters for the battle, I don’t see a soldier or anyone listed as…say “Mr. Brown and Family”, never heard of any battles outside of raids where children were involved. Every story I heard on my line never took place, but they are fun to hear and read regardless.
Hey, Bee, do you remember a while back, you asked me abt the variant spellings of the surname Bailes?
Greydove, yes I remember. Was wondering if the Baliles (or similar spelling) from my family’s neck of the woods (sw VA) might be related. Don’t know anything about them, though. Just recall seeing the name.
Hey Bee, I am fairly new to genealogy, so when I see my ancestors surnames spelled differently, at first I thought, no, that’s not her or him (on rcds) Now Bailes that being my GreatGrandmother, I go to her grave and it’s spelled Bailes there. But, I’ve seen it listed as Bails, Bales, and so I know it’s however the let’s say census taker wanted to spell it, ya think? Anyway, I just read todays posts on various threads, and it seems there has been some “heated” discussions. I hope everyone can see past alot of what people post and just try to get on the so-called “same page” by helping each other out. Rather than point out all the differences, it would be nice to look for the common path. Not that I am any kind of authority on human behavior, but we all know each of us has our own opinion-and no 2 are going to be exactly alike, just like people, no 2 exactly alike. But, when ones opinion is taken as offensive and boundarys feel like they’ve been violated- we all know it’s not a good thing. I’ll get off my soap-box now, but Greywolf & Steve-o, I hope you guys can agree to just disagree and let it go at that. Don’t want to see anyone leave here angry. We all get angry and frustrated but it’s what you do with it that matters. It doesn’t really matter so much what a person does as much as the way it’s done and also same goes for the way things are said-not so important abt ‘what’ is said, but how it is said. Let’s band together-not pull apart. Thanks for letting me have my say. Peace & Happy Hunting 😀 ~^~Greydove (aka~Donna) PS~ Remember Brenda’s quote abt the rainbow colors?
Steve-o wrote: Well apparently some people here think I am on the attack, which is furthest from the truth. I just say it as it is instead of coddling a person with kindness. Not your beef, so I digress.
But to the point, alot of the stories really range on what grandma said and people don’t want to think that grandma lied, and no one is saying she did. But often somoen before, during, and after grandma would like to add something to make the story more entertaining. It was said that my ancestor had the Shawnee living on his land which historically is unlikely as they were not in the area during that time, they were hundreds of miles away. So it seems unlikely that every day they would travel hundreds of miles to battle, then trek back hundreds of miles, camp out, then go hundreds of miles back to where they came from.
Another story is that my Shawnee ancestress lived at Point Pleasant and was hidden in a cabin. Either under the floor, in a closet, or wherever. Again that is false because of only the fort being in the area in the middle of what was essentially wilderness. Cabins never came to the area until years later.
So when I read about the Ice thing, where it stated she was at the battle hiding in the bushes, was discovered, and adopted, I seriously had reservations on that. Again, I have never heard of anyone taking small children into battle with them, native or otherwise. And still again, the whole “Curtain Doll” thing throws me a bit. But I am repeating myself.
It is quite possible that she was adopted into the Shawnee, who were pretty notorious for adopting, but the stories attached, no matter how “grand” they sound, most likely get twisted quite alot into something far from the actual event.
When I look at the rosters for the battle, I don’t see a soldier or anyone listed as…say “Mr. Brown and Family”, never heard of any battles outside of raids where children were involved. Every story I heard on my line never took place, but they are fun to hear and read regardless.
Hey Steve-o, About theTecumsey/Ice/Bayles story, the way I read it was it was more of a “raid” by the Shawnee close to Ice’s Ferry than a battle. I think if that were true, it would’ve been more of a surprise attack, and there would not have been much time for anyone to hide anywhere, much less in a bush or whatever. Just want to make sure that people understand that if I pass on info I come accross, doesn’t mean I believe it is true or agree with what is put out there on the net. I hope you don’t think I was saying that this woman of this alleged event years ago was my GreatGrandmother. I would like to know my ndn blood line, but maybe I am just a romantic, I would hope for a much less violent union. I had hoped that whether it was one of my forefathers of European descent that married an ndn woman, or a GreatGrandmother that married an ndn man that they met, fell in love, had off-spring, and I would be a result (eventually) of that. But, I know in the real world, it more than likely, didn’t happen that way. I remember reading somewhere back on this forum someone was fretting over a revelation that happened in a past ancestors life, and the advise given made sense to me–if you don’t want to know the truth about the past, you should not go there. In other words, if you go digging into the past, you’de better be prepared for the bad, the ugly, as well as the good- if you can’t handle what is there–don’t go there. But, like most of us here,(and I am only speaking for my self) I want to know. I am made up of alot of different blood-lines. I want to know about all of them. But when I want to know more about my English, Irish, German, etc heritage, I will go to those kind of forums. Here, I will seek common ground abt my ndn roots. I want to have fun, not bicker and bite others cause they don’t agree with me, or I them. So you see, Life is a journey. We all know what the final destination is, so let’s just enjoy the ride. Don’t mean to sound like I know all about life, but I have been on this earth (in physical form) almost 58 yrs. I am still here, so my mission has not been accomplished, evidently. But, though we all make mistakes, we must learn by them, otherwise we won’t have time to get around to all of them–lol! Did’nt mean to sound like I am a teacher, but in a way I am an elder to those younger. We all need to get rid of the anger and go for the love. Life just isn’t fair, but it wasn’t promised to us that it would be- it’s what you make it. Walk in Grace, Love, & Peace my U-na-li-i (Friend)~^~Greydove;)
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
