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With impeccable timing Airy Dixon (Heriberto Dixon, PhD) has just sent me a copy of an article he’s written that has just been published in the “American Indian Culture and Research Journal: 26:3 (200) 63-84
On page 66 there’s a paragraph that perhaps explains the confusions brought up in this thread.
Ohio Valley Considerations
The Saponi, Tutelo and Occaneechi languages have been classified as Ohio Valley or Southeastern Siouan. 6 Terrell notes the Mandan language is closely related to both the Winnebago and the Tutelo. This close linguistic relationship tends to suggest that even before they lived in northern Wisconsin, they may have all resided in the Ohio-Kentucky region, for the Tutelo and other Eatern Siouan tribes may have migrated from the Ohio River and its tributaries to the Virginia-Carolinas Piedmont. 7 Henderson notes that there have been many debates surrounding the possibility of Tutelo (and by extension Ohio Valley Siouan) use and occupation along the Big Sandy River in eastern Kentucy. It appears that the Big Sandy River was originally known as the “Tottery” or “Talleroye” (i.d., Tutelo) River.8
In traceing backI have found Mary Roark was the great granddaughter of Aaron Brock aka Chief Red Bird. Of course these are just stories but I am beginning to wonder if there was truth in what old grandpa said.
>>>>>>
In surfing last night I found some interesting reading on this subject:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~brockfamily/ChiefRedBird.html
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~brockfamily/BrockAaronSr.html
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~brockfamily/ChiefRedBird-byKBTankersley.html
Check them out and I would love to know what you all think.
Brenda
those are interesting links, Brenda.
On the first one thre is a map near the Floyd County border with Knott County (heavy Pink Line) is a place called “Wayland”. I have Wayland ancestors who were known to be “close” too that location, but nearer to the Tn/Va line. I’ve recently found them as early as 1770 or 80s near Tryon, NC near the SC border, and also on Tyger River, SC near a place called Spartanburg, SC before that. Later they are in Arkansas and helped start the first Methodist Church in Arkansas
http://www.couchgenweb.com/lawrence/church/walnmeth.htm
Read down half way where it says the families of the Waylands and Rainwaters started the first Methodist Church in Arkansas in 1815. Some of my Richey’s married Rainwater’s (a son of Hamilton Richey married a granddaughter of Hugh’s). Hugh Rainwater was the presiding pastor who performed the marriage ceremony for Jeffrey Hoten Richey and Josephine Brown, my great-grandparents in 1872. I’m thinkin’ it might be a son or grandson of the original Hugh, either that or he was an old man by then. Richey’s and Waylands did marry one another too and I am descended from them.
Also the second link was interesting. It mentions someone who married a half-Chickasaw named George Colbert. It shows the lineage of this family and they were trying to trace it back to Doublehead. It says —
Children of CHIEF DOUBLEHEAD and CREAT PRIBER are:
i. TUCKAHO5 DOUBLEHEAD, b. Abt. 1758; m. MARGARET MOUNCE, Chery Fork, now Helenwood, TN; b. Abt. 1768.
ii. TUSKIAHOOTE DOUBLEHEAD, b. Abt. 1760; d. Abt. 1817, Colbert Ferry, Colbert Co, AL; m. GEORGE COLBERT, COL; b. 1764; d. January 07, 1839, Ft Towson, IT.
More About GEORGE COLBERT, COL:
Blood: 1/2 Chickasaw
When my great-grandparents (the same Jeffrey and Josephine I just mentioned) moved into the Chickasaw Nation here in Oklahoma, they got a ten year lease to live on the land (this was in the late 1880s). The lease was from a Chickasaw Indian and his last name was “Colbert”. Now I wanna look up that document and see what his first name was again as I didn’t pay much attention. Now I am thinking maybe they already knew him, or their families paths might have crossed in the past and their families knew of one another. You know Doublehead died on the Tennessee River in NW Alabama. My Brown’s/Guesses/Roney’s/Black’s lived 1 or 2 counties SE of that place. A cousin found in documents in SC where the Waylands were friends with some Brown’s there and later the 2 families marry into one another in Arkansas.
It mentions this Col George Colbert who was 1/2 Chickasaw as having died in 1839 in Ft. Towson, IT. That was in the Choctaw Nation & I once knew that location well. My uncle (now deceased) had a farm once just 2 miles from the ruins of that old fort, you couldn’t tell where any of the buildings once had been, just trees and vines and piles of bricks and rotting decaying wood. When I recall it it was just scattered piles or rubbush in the woods — nothing discernable at all really — but I understand they have done some restoration work on it since then. I was a kid then and I’m 50 now so that was 40 years ago.
I have an old corn-grinding rock with 2 smaller hand stones that you can still see impressions of each finger, and my uncle always called it “Vances Rock” because I found it in on a creek on that farm of his I just mentioned. When he died and they sold his home, those old rocks were left under an old cedar tree. I went by there and saw the old rocks were still there. I just went by & picked them up and took them home with me as it didn’t look like anyone else cared for them.
I really don’t know how this any of ties together or if it ties together, but it is either a low-probability coincidence or it is something I ought to be looking into a little more.
Thanks —
vance
ps — i’m editing this a few hours after the original msg — the ten year lease was from a Chickasaw named “Belton Colbert”. It was in the 1880s a good 40 plus years years after George Colbert died. I;’ve since done a google search for this name Col. George Colbert — he seems to have been an important figure as he signed several treaties foir the Chickasaw, but I haven’t had time to learn much about him — I need more time & let it soak in.
My gr-Gr-Grandpa told the story of how he came upon a Indian village while huntin. He said he returned several times because a pretty little Indian woman caught his eye. One day when she wandered a distance from the village he stole her for his wife. This was supposely Mary ROARK. Mary was the great granddaughter of Aaron Brock aka Chief Redbird.
I just recieved an email :
Hi Brenda,
I am not sure if you are aware that the Brock family lived with the Collins
and others while in Virginia before moving west. John and William – both
married Indian women – presumably sisters that were also part of the same
Indian community. They were the Tyree family which is a Catawba family that
was brought north by a trader.
The Tyree surname also is found among my BENNETT line. I have never really researched that name. Does anybody know anything about the TYREE family?
Brenda
Brenda;
My gggggrandmother was Sally Ann Stivers and she married my gggggrandfather William Neal. They came to the Higbee Mo. area just north of Boone County from Fayette County Ky.in the 1800’s.
Sally Ann Stivers had a 1st. cousin living in Clay County Ky. named George Stivers and he married Letitia/Leathy Tudors. Letitia was the daughter of the cherokee captive Stephen Tudors (and Morning Dawn) who’s story is called out in the Aaron Brock webpage you have listed. Stephen was a captive of your grandpa.
George had a son named Elisha Stivers and he married Adeline Benge. Adeline was the greatgranddaughter of Thomas Benge Jr. Thomas was the brother of John “Old Trader” Benge and was the uncle of Cherokee Chief Robert “The Bench” Benge scourge of the old frontier. Thomas and John married the two Lewis sisters Susannah and Elizabeth and also took cherokee wives.
Can you tell me more about Aaron Brock? Do you know names of other families that traveled with Red Bird’s band? Are you connected to the Troxells?
What a small world it seems sometimes.
Dan Akin.
Dan,
I have just began the search into this direction. I searched for years for the parents of my Mary Roark Collins and only a few months ago stumbled onto the true line.
I will share something that was sent to me. Perhaps you have it already but it is all I really have at this time. Remember this is not MY research but that of an unknown soul.
Notes for RED BIRD TO-JU-HWA “CHEROKEE”:
Red Bird, a descendant (thought to be grandson) of the great War Woman
Cutsuwah that fell at Burnside, Kentucky during the French and Indian War was
a War Chief of the Cumberland Plateau Thunderbolt Chickamaugan Cherokee known
as Chief Cutsuwah, and was also a close relative of Thunderbolt District
Chief Beloved/War Woman Cornblossom, eldest and highly honored daughter of
famous Thunderbolt War Chief Doublehead that was assassinated by conformist
Cherokee.
After the Cherokee Children Massacre, August 10, 1810 at Ywahoo (Cumberland)
Falls
(http://happytrails_2.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/ywahoo.ht
m) by militia from Wayne and Pulaski Counties led by Hiram “Big Tooth”
Gregory in which War Woman Cornblossom and husband War Chief Jacob Troxell
along with War Woman Standing Fern and husband War Chief Peter Troxell son of
Cornblossom fell, Chief Red Bird sent his people into hiding among the
settlers of eastern Kentucky and western Virginia as had been suggested
earlier by Chief Doublehead.
But Big Tooth Gregory’s militia feeling they must destroy any remaining
Doublehead bloodline to effectively end any resistance to white settlement
sent assassination teams out searching for Red Bird and his family, resulting
in the assassination of Red Bird, his brother Jack and many of their family
near the mouth of Jacks Creek and the Red Bird River in Clay County, Kentucky
within months of the children’s massacre, and thus bringing an end to any
organized Cherokee resistance to white settlement of Kentucky, Tennessee,
north Georgia, and north Alabama.
Evidently Red Bird’s wife Rhoda Sizemore along with two sons, Russell and
John (thought to have been other younger children that were killed) escaped
the assassination and managed to give the alarm. A group of settlers (Rhoda’s
relatives and friends) led by a Rev. John Gilbert drove the assassins away
and buried the bodies. A historical marker marks the approx. burial site ( I
believe the marker is now missing). This river was named Red Bird in the
Chief’s honor, while Jacks Branch was named for Jack.
Many wild “Country Store” stories about Red Bird have been circulated over
the years. Now I see that they are making him a member of the “Whitetop
Laurel Band of Cherokee” (Reprinted in Kentucky Explorer, Volume 11, March
1997). I’ll bet he’s sure amused, he having been dead almost a hundred years
before that band was formed to assist with the “Eastern Cherokee
Applications”. Others would make him “Old Aaron Brock”, and while Aaron was
about three quarters Cherokee, and may/may not have been called “Red Bird”,
he was most definitely not “Chief Cutsuwah”.
Descendants of John Roark:
1 John Roark ca 1790- 1844, d. May 25, 1844 Clay Co., KY, b. ca 1790 TN or VA.
+ Nancy Sloan, m. ca 1813, b. Unknown, d. ca 1829, d/o Thomas Sloan who was
1770 Ireland and Bartheny Brock, d/o Jesse Brock and Rebecca Howard. Jesse
was s/o Aaron Brock b. ca 1721.
2.Mary Roark 1813-1870 My GG grandmother******
2.Daughter Roark 1815-1820
2.James Roark b. ca 1820 Harlan Co., KY
+Mary Jane Asher b. ca 1830
2.Ellender Roark b. 1827 Harlan Co., KY
+Claiborne Smith m. Feb. 8, 1841 Clay Co., KY
Second wife of John Roark:
+Elizabeth Brock b. 1810 VA, d. after 1887 Salt Trace, Harlan Co., KY, d/o Jesse
Brock, Jr. and Sarah Noe. They married March 31, 1831 Harlan Co., KY.
2.Malinda Roark b.August 6, 1830 Harlan Co., KY, d. June 22, 1914 at Mills, Knox Co., KY
+Shadrick M. Shepherd b. ca 1825, d. ca 1867 Clay Co., KY, m. August
22, 1847 Harlan Co., KY.
Second husband of Malinda Roark:
+John North b. ca 1820, m. June 1, 1868 Clay Co., KY
2 John Roark b. Oct. 17, 1831 Clay Co., KY , d. Nov. 7, 1913 Roark, Leslie Co.,
KY.
+Nancy Brock b. May 31,1831 Harlan Co., KY, m. 1855 Clay Co., KY
2 Matlda Roark b. ca 1835
2. Jane Roark b. ca 1837, d. ca 1864 Harlan Co., KY
+ Richard M. Johnson-Helton b. ca 1836, d. Nov. 23, 1902 in Knuckles, KY,
m.1860 Harlan Co., KY.
2 William Roark b. ca 1840
2 Aaron Roark b. ca 1845 Clay Co., KY (probably named for his grandfather,
Aaron Brock)
+ Hetty Brock (cousin to above names Nancy Brock; also a descendant of
Aaron Brock). She was b. ca 1849, m. 1865 Harlan Co., KY.
Names that seem to connect are Collette, Sizemore, Asher, Caldwell, Shephard, Sloan, Helton, & Muncy
Sorry I couldn’t be more help.
Brenda
Brenda;
No, you have helped a whole lot. These are important pieces of a greater overall picture that is forming. Like a jigsaw puzzle. Even though there have been some fantastic claims proposed by individuals about Native Americans in Old Kentucky somewhere there lays the true story and history of these people. Yes, they did exist and often right alongside their white neighbors.
One of the most important settlements in the Boone’s Lick country here in central Missouri in the time frame of 1813 to 1821 was the Sexton settlement and tavern later called “Persia.” (I’ll bet this is the same Sexton family that Sexton’s Creek was named after in Red Bird’s hunting grounds.) One of the settlers here at “Persia”was PETER STIVERS. Down the Boone’s Lick Trail at the same time was the salt licks of William Callahan. William is recorded as the first settler in Boone County Mo. He and his wife fought with hostile tribes in the area. William Callahan was accused himself of being an Indian. They say he never denied it. That is in the official Boone County history.The Brocks, and Strongs married into the Callahans.
You see? Pieces of the puzzle.
Dan Akin.
Dan,
Going back even further………1780’s
(Montgomery Co. militia 1780’s by Kegly)(Osborn Company )
Benjamin Sexton
Charles Sexton
David Collins
George Collins
* Meredith Collins (enlisted 1776 at age 16, makes him in his 20’s)
Lewis Collins (son of John)
Elisha Collins (refused to take Oath of Allegiance 1777)
John Sexton
William Bowlin
William Riddle(son of Moses)
John Riddle (son of Moses)
Samuel Collins
John Collins (Probably a Jr.)
This showes that the Collins and Sexton’s were together in what was called Fincastle and when it was divided it became Montgomery Co. Virginia. My guess is if we search in this area we will also find the Brock’s and some of the other surnames.
Moses Riddle was listed as “Indian” in Pittsylvania Co. 1767. According to Jack Goins he says there is strong evidence that Moses Riddle was married to either the daughter or sister of Old Thomas Collins. I believe the John SR., and Samuel listed above were sons of Old Thomas Collins and believe one of them to be the father of my Meredith.
Brenda
I just heard back from the lady who contacted me about the burial site. She finally got in touch with the people who live there. They’ll be very happy to hear from someone about this, so wish me luck, I’ll try and call them tomorrow night. I’m hoping they can send along some email attachment pictures of a few artifacts.
Brenda,
I only know of the Tyree surname in Virginia. They are documented as being “Buffalo Ridge Cherokee”.
Sincerely,
CoheeLady
Tyree is also located very heavily in the Suffolk/Chesapeake area of VA. I believe that this name was one of the “unchristianized” Nansemond that migrated westward away from the tribe. From what I’ve been able to tell, this group mingled and married with the Souian of the Piedmont and continued their travel westward.
I grew up in the area called Big Sandy. The Big Sandy River begins at the junction of the Levisa Fork and Tug Fork at Louisa, Kentucky. The Big Sandy joins the Ohio at Catlettsburg, Kentucky and this junction separates Kentucky, Ohio & West Virginia.
The Adena populated this area before the arrival of the Shawnee. The Shawnee as well as other tribes followed a trail from Shanoah, Kentucky near the mouth of the Scioto River at Portsmouth, Ohio to Prestonsburg, Kentucky located on the Big Sandy River distance of about 100 miles. This trail was known as the Jenny Wiley Trail by the early settlers. This trail continued south to Pine Mountain where the Tug Fork and Levisa Fork begin. At Pine Mountain the trail intersects with the Appalachian Trail near Pound Gap, Va.
The Big Sandy Valley is a major coal mining region. One of the reuirements for federal permits for coal docks, coal storage, coal mines, etc. is a professional archeological study or survey. There are hundreds of permits in this area. There should be some useful data collected through the permiting process.
One of my clients, Dewey Bocook with Bocook Engineering, located at Paintsville, KY near the mouth of Paint Creek which runs into the Big Sandy should have information on sources to contact. E-mail Dewey Bocook dbocook@bocook.com.
Roger
WOW what a huge amount of information!
I feel asthough we are on the verge of something really BIG, with all of our families moving through these areas it’s mind blowing to discover these sites.
It is starting to appear asthough when the Great Dispersal happened families knew where other members went to and in some cases many many years later followed.
From what is becoming very well founded our families moved into very old tribal lands.
I think that perhaps when the Europeans landed our kin folks were were living in a very wide spread area, after contact they may have moved back to tribal areas that family already lived on.
THIS is really going to open a huge Pandoras box.
LINDA ALL the best with the research into Totero sites.
This is MEGA!!!
Rodger,
I emailed Dewey Bocook to see if he would have access to early history of how the minning companies obtained the rights to all this land.
First, I have Collins living and owning lots of property in this area.
Second, I have a very quick tempered GGGGrandfather who took his sons to court accusing them of stealing his land
third, One son, William Collins Sr. ( b. 1806) sold much of this land for penny’s an acre smack dab in the middle of some of the riches coal deposits.
I believe that Meredith was correct when he accused his sons but the only one that seemed to profit was William and he got “took”.
Would love to be a mouse in that Pike County records department.
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