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Hi Brenda
I operated a deep mine at Phelps (Pike County) in the early 1980’s. My wife is presently employed by a large coal company as land department supervisor and this company has a land field office in the Pike County area. Research opportunities available.
Harry Caudill from Whitesburg wrote a book “Night Comes to Cumberland” which deals with the early years of the mining industry in Eastern Kentucky. Harry also wrote a book about the Jenny Wiley Saga. There are lots of Jenny Wiley tales handed down through various families in the Big Sandy area. My grandfather use to tell the grandkids the Conley version around a fire in the orchard of his farm. The Conleys and Wileys were acquainted in the early settler days of Johnson County.
I have a client, The Jesse Stuart Foundation, which publishes Harry’s books. JSF also publishes Allan Eckerts books. I have met Allan and he has a wealth of information about the early history of the Ohio Valley.
The editor for JSF is Dr. James M. Gifford a professor at Morehead State University. Contact JSF for a list of publications at:
Jesse Stuart Foundation
1645 Winchester Avenue
Ashland, KY 41105
606-326-1667
John CC Mayo, a wealthy coal baron, lived in Paintsville, KY. He was a local school teacher until beginning a career as leasing agent for Consolidation Coal Company. He bought thousands of acres of mineral rights for pennies. Until recent years mineral rights could be severed from fee simple title and mined without compensation to the land owner.
I spoke with Dewey Bocook today and he is sending me contact information for Kentucky agencies dealing with archeology for mining permits. Dewey is also a descendant of Henry Scaggs. Henry came to Big Sandy with the Harmons and rescued Jenny Wiley from the Shawnee at Blockhouse Bottom by rafting her across the Big Sandy to safety.
Roger
Hi Linda
I have sent Dewey Bocook an e-mail request to assist anyone on this site concerning Big Sandy Tutelo research. I am also visiting the Jesse Stuart Foundation today and will try to contact Allan Eckert about any research material he may have on the Big Sandy Tutelo.
Roger
Question:
Allan Eckert : Didn’t he write a book that had “Wilderness” in the title? It seems to me there was something in that book about my SPENCER line.
Brenda
Hi Brenda
Allan Eckert is a noted American Historian, Naturalist & Author. Books include:
Wilderness Empire
The Wilderness War
Check out http://www.jsfbooks.com
Most of his early books follow the lives of Tecumseh, Blue Jacket and Simon Kenton
He received an Emmy award for the Mutual of Omaha’s Wild Kingdom TV Series.
Roger
Thanks Rodger,
The book I was thinking of was “The Wilderness War”. It has information on the half blood Onieda, Thomas Spencer, who fought during the Battle of Orskany in NY. He had a brother Henry Spencer.
If you use the search engine on site you will find my inquiries into this line.
Brenda
Hello All, in the earlier postings , there was a mention of the Tutelo being refered to as the Shatara!
There were several spellings , has anyone else seen this listing?
I was thinking that maybe it refers to a division of some sort or perhaps a descent line, Chiefs name attached to a tribal Band?
Has anyone seen this other than here?
Roger,
It may vary by State (or not), but isn’t it true that when a person buys land, unless otherwise specified, the buyer does not own the mineral rights under that land?
Bill
Bill
Kentucky amended its broad form deed law in 1988 to deny mineral owners the right to mine without the land owners permission. Under current mining law you must have both surface and mineral rights by lease or ownership to mine coal.
Roger
Bill
A title search would have to be performed to determine if the mineral rights followed the surface. Not all deeds disclose the fact the mineral had been severed. You are correct in that each state can differ as to mineral severance and ownership rights for mineral extraction.
Roger
It’s been about 14 years since I was a licensed Realtor here in Ohio. If I remember correctly, the term “fee simple absolute” means you own it all, land, water, minerals and the air space above it (meaning you have the right to build up and to keep others from building OVER your property).
Out west it’s typical for water rights not to transfer with a deed (hard to imagine you could own land and not have the right to drill a well or take water from a stream or river on your land), in KY, it’s mineral rights that may not transfer with the deed. I’m sure other places have other valuable resources that have been severed from land ownership over the years.
I remember years ago my grandpa sold the coal rights he had on land in KY when he had the chance because he said if he didn’t sell it they’d take it anyway and he’d get nothing.
You guys are good!
How do you find all of this facsinating stuff?
Linda, Tom is right, this is MEGA!
Yeah, mineral rights do vary. My husband bought the mineral rights with this land when he bought it. Most people up here don’t have and according to hubby can’t get mineral rights, or maybe not easily?
Man! I hope we ARE ALL COUSINS! Cause’ then maybe some of these brains of yours trickled my way! I want to know all the juicy secrets…..How do you do it? I’ve learned more right here tonight than I ever recall picking up in a classroom. I wish I had input on this subject! Lynella.
Linda
I obtained all published work performed by UK in the Big Sandy area, nothing reported to suport existence of Tutelo. One of their digs was located at Staffordsville along Paint Creek near Paintsville, Johnson County, Ky. This site was on the layout of a new subdivision. UK found a few animal bones. I knew the developer and was told by him that he had found several artifacts, pipes made from material found around the Great Lakes and identified as Iroquois. It is thought that the Iroquois ran the Tutelo out of the area in 1699. I have not pursued the Tutelo for sometime. I have the name of a local collector, but have not made contact. The Corp conducted a study of the Blaine Creek Drainage before the construction of Yatesville Dam in Lawerence Co., same area. I belive U. Penn or Pitt. conducted the survey. I was introduced to a secretary for the Corp of Engineers, Huntington, WV at a party sometime back but failed to pursue the results of their study.
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