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Wow ya’all…this is right interesting…I was just this week “digging” for some folks in my tree and located them on census records in , you guessed it: Paintsville! To toss a few names, I started researching Reuben Dale and his wife Tabitha Selvage, whose children were born in Johnson Co, KY: Berry, Frances, Pleasant, Artis, Charity, Henry & Juriah….Berry having MD Chaney “Chana” Cole….their children were also born there (one record I located mentioned a place called “Jenny’s Creek”)…I located most of these family members in 1850, 1860, 1870 and 1880 in that same location, which by 1860 was called Paint Creek or Paintsville…and by the time 1870 rolled around they were all indexed as “IND” denoting Indian…all living right close together were my family tree surnames of Dale, Cole & Ratliff….when I ran a ancestry.com search for ALL Dale surname families in that area in 1870 I came up with the following listings:
Amanda Dale Paintsville, Johnson, KY abt 1860 Kentucky Indian Female
Arther Dale Paintsville, Johnson, KY abt 1848 Kentucky Indian Male
Charity Dale Paintsville, Johnson, KY abt 1851 Kentucky Indian Female
Cheriah Dale Paintsville, Johnson, KY abt 1858 Kentucky Indian Female
Frances Dale Paintsville, Johnson, KY abt 1837 Kentucky Indian Female
Judith Dale Paintsville, Johnson, KY abt 1854 Kentucky Indian Female
Reuben Dale Paintsville, Johnson, KY abt 1803 Virginia Indian Male
Tabitha Dale Paintsville, Johnson, KY abt 1817 Tennessee Indian Female
William Dale Paintsville, Johnson, KY abt 1861 Kentucky Indian Male
I knew previously that Chaney Cole was of NA descent but I really had no idea that the Dale families were native by blood also, so it was a right nice suprise. I also noted that some of the Dale’s MD into the Collins folks I already had indexed and their NA heritage has been long-standing and known by many folks. It is interesting that ya’ll mention the Tutelo as being indigenous to that specific area…In speaking recently with Richard (Carlson) he mentioned to me that it is quite likely that some of our purported Cherokee ancestors may well have been Saponi and/or Tutelo and likely intermarried with other native american tribes from the New River area (originating) thus composing a family heritage that is one of numerous “tribes” or clans. I hope to learn much more about these Johnson County kin of mine/ours in the weeks and months to come…by way of a “group question” I ask: were a majority of the Paintsville, Johnson Co, KY populous in 1870 primarilly comprised of ppl indexed as indian?
There is a wealth of information online about the Cole, Collins and allied families available online via Johnson County…I am very grateful for that indeed….to link y’all:
1. a superb Collins Marriage link from rootsweb:
http://www.rootsweb.com/~kyjohnso/collins.htm
2. Johnson County Ky BIRTHS for year 1859 can be located at:
http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/ky/johnson/vitals/births/b1859.txt
*Note: if you move your cursor to the “address bar” and CHANGE the YEAR and click on “GO” you can also locate additional years for Johnson County births…it is “hit or miss” as to which years they accept, but try it…I located MUCH more doing just that!*
3. Johnson Co, KY MAIN index page for info:
http://www.rootsweb.com/~kyjohnso/jcindex.htm
Blessings to all from here to there~~~~Laurie
Linda wrote: I heard from a lady last week with some exciting news. Her people come from the Big Sandy in KY (I believe it’s also bordering OH). She has the Blackfoot ID in her family, and I know other people with this ID and location.
The Big Sandy is noted on old maps as the Tuterro (Tutelo) River. There are some other tidbits of evidence confirming that the Tutelo were there.
She knows about a burial that was unconvered when an upscale subdivision was put in. It’s always haunted her and some others aware of it. They could get no interest from any of the academics in looking at any of the stuff. It sounds like it’s been squirreled away safely by private parties, awaiting some interest someday.
She described some of the elements she saw and it may be this is a Tutelo burial ground, right in the vicinity of what appears to be a cabbage patch full of Blackfoot ID’d descendants. Tnis could be the mother load.
Anyway, I can’t recall the particulars to any of this evidence concerning the Tutelo presence on the Big Sandy. I need good, meaty academic citations.
Can anybody help me out here?
I have been trying to find out when our families from SE ky move to Greenup region. I was positive by the surnames surrounding each other that they were part of the same group down south. Chief Cornstalk (Keigh Taugh Quah) and other tribes were around the area:
Cornstalk was a great orator, courageous fighter and a fine military strategist. While fighting with the French during the French and Indian War, he led a 1763 expedition against white settlements in what is now Greenbrier County, West Virginia. Over the next decade, he led the resistance to white encroachment in the Ohio River Valley.
In the early 1770s, as chief of a confederation of the Shawnee, Wyandot, Delaware and Mingo tribes in Ohio, Cornstalk led a large war party against Virginia troops under General Andrew Lewis. On Oct. 10, 1774, in an indecisive day-long battle at present day Point Pleasant, WV, both sides suffered heavy losses. Cornstalk later signed a peace treaty with Virginia Governor Lord Dunmore.
During the American Revolution the British formed an Indian coalition to fight the colonists. Chief Cornstalk alone refused to join. He believed his people’s survival depended on friendly relations with the Virginians. In the spring of 1777, he visited the garrison at Point Pleasant with a small contingent of Indians to inform the colonials of the British plans. While the Virginians waited for reinforcements, they held the Indians hostage. Following the killing of a white man outside the fort by other Indians, Chief Cornstalk and his men were murdered by the soldiers.
Cornstalk was so admired, a 12 foot monument was erected over his grave in 1950 at the Mason County Courthouse.
http://www.thewoodsresort.com/woodsedit/Newspg5.html
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The island now known as Midelburg on the Guyandotte River in Logan, WV was a Shawnee capitol and gathering place for several Native American tribes. This, combined with mountainous terrain and inaccessibility, discouraged white settlement of the area. From this protected vantage point the Shawnee Chief Cornstalk planned his strategies.
lynellarainhawk wrote: You guys are good!
How do you find all of this facsinating stuff?
Linda, Tom is right, this is MEGA!
Yeah, mineral rights do vary. My husband bought the mineral rights with this land when he bought it. Most people up here don’t have and according to hubby can’t get mineral rights, or maybe not easily?
Man! I hope we ARE ALL COUSINS! Cause’ then maybe some of these brains of yours trickled my way! I want to know all the juicy secrets…..How do you do it? I’ve learned more right here tonight than I ever recall picking up in a classroom. I wish I had input on this subject! Lynella.
The more I read each of your posts, the more I think we are all drawn to this site b/c we all are related one way or the other. I think we’re a pretty special group myself. I am biased though!:p
Koreana — is the story of Benjamin Ulin (1760-1834) reported in your local histories? He was a Creek captive from about 12 to 17, then was taken north and ransomed (not to his own relatives), and was raised for a few more years by Isaac Zane and (mainly) his Indian wife, from whom he learned Delaware and Shawnee speech. He had various adventures, one of which gave the name to “Ulin’s Leap” near Point Pleasant; and he did some interpreting for a treaty at Marietta (now) OH, it would appear, in 1790. Or maybe a little later.
There is a strange and hard-to-read narrative of his life (in the first person, but actually written by his son in 1853, years after he died — in Greenup Co. KY). I transcribed it about 15 years ago from the original in the Draper mss. at the Wisconsin Hist. Soc. Ran across it last night, and I had just read something you wrote here about Greenup Co., so I thought it might be of interest. It isn’t about Eastern Siouans, though.
I think Benjamin Ulin Jr., or maybe one of his brothers, was at one time the county sheriff, living at Catlettsburg. That part is my dim recollection, and not from the narrative I described.
I live in Greenup County and would be interested in information concerning Benjamin Ulin. I have seen his name in the 1820 and 1840 Greenup Co. census. There are no Ulins living in Greenup Co. today, however we have a place called Uhlen’s Branch.
Some mention of early Greenup Co. in “My Father Daniel Boone” from Draper’s interview of Nathan Boone, Daniel’s youngest son. Traces Boone family miagration from towns along the Ohio until their move to Missiouri. The Boones were involved in the formation of Greenup Co.
GREENUP COUNTY. Greenup County, the forty-fifth formed in Kentucky, was established in 1803 from part of Mason County. It lies in the Appalachian region of the state, in the northeast corner, bordered by the Ohio River and by Boyd, Lewis, and Carter counties. GREENUP, the county seat, and the county itself were named for Christopher Greenup (1804-8), Kentucky’s fourth governor.
At some time before 1753, French fur traders and Shawnee Indians settled opposite the mouth of the Scioto River. This was believed to be the only white settlement in Kentucky before Fort Harrod, but all traces of the village disappeared before 1800. Indian burial mounds near Siloam and Old Springville are the remains of prehistoric villages where the Adena people lived more than two thousand years before the first white settlers. The Adena, who lived
I have no objection to sharing my transcription of the Benjamin Ulen sketch with any of you Greenup County folks who want to email me off-list with your mailing address. I think the Wisconsin Historical Society might object if I posted the whole thing on the forum, as there are various permission hoops to jump through. Also, what I have is a typescript, not a digital file. I did it a long time ago, using a Selectric.
I just noticed that the informant in 1853 spelled the name Ulen rather than Ulin. It is spelled Ulin in a couple of nineteenth century publications, one about Ulin’s Leap and one obituary notice of his son John Ulin, who was a Methodist preacher. (It is also spelled Huling, I believe, in the papers of Isaac Craig in Pittsburgh. I don’t think Craig was correct, he just knew some Hulings and thought it was the same name.) I don’t really know what should be considered “correct,” but spelling and grammar were not high priorities with the writer of Benjamin Ulen’s memoir. Punctuation was not there at all. (About a thousand words, with no commas, and only two periods — in the abbreviation of Post Office as P.O.)
when I ran a ancestry.com search for ALL Dale surname families in that area in 1870 I came up with the following listings:
Amanda Dale Paintsville, Johnson, KY abt 1860 Kentucky Indian Female
Arther Dale Paintsville, Johnson, KY abt 1848 Kentucky Indian Male
Charity Dale Paintsville, Johnson, KY abt 1851 Kentucky Indian Female
Cheriah Dale Paintsville, Johnson, KY abt 1858 Kentucky Indian Female
Frances Dale Paintsville, Johnson, KY abt 1837 Kentucky Indian Female
BlondeeyeLaurie, that seems to be most unusual, a census record listing people as Indian. Has Bill seen this? I’d like to know if he’s ever seen people categorized this way in Kentucky. Does the census from this time and locale have more people listed as such?
I obtained all published work performed by UK in the Big Sandy area, nothing reported to suport existence of Tutelo.
Who’s the UK? I wouldn’t expect to find much archeological evidence. After a certain era, the 1600’s or so, the Saponi/Tutelo aren’t anywhere as a distinct entity, but rather merged in with other groups. We have them merged with the Seneca in warfare in Maryland, 1740. We found some warriors in Tecumseh’s camp in the 1800s, we find some allied to the Seneca around the time of the F&I war.
The old map which names the Big Sandy the Tottero is I believe the first map drawn by colonials of the region, I’m going to say the 1650’s. Perhaps the only supportive data is the assertion that the old Tutelo trail to the Ohio passed through there. Then it would make sense, that in the days of their full power, this trail would have been held and defended.
“Who’s the UK?”
The University of Kentucky, in Lexington. They do more than just basketball, kind of like Duke; there is one main product, and then a bunch of incidental, academic stuff going on. Like archaeology. And the John Jacob Niles Center for Appalachian Music. (Named in honor of the Adolph Rupp of dulcimer players.)
Hello there Linda…y’all! *waves* Please forgive me for the delay in replying but I changed servers and had a few “glitches” to settle and tend to…at any rate…I DID scour through all 44 pages of the 1870 Census in Johnson Co, KY and additionally tracked the Dale family that connects to my tree that I made mention of in the aforementioned posting…in so doing, this is what I located:
1850: Dale’s listed as no race (denoted)
1860: all listed as MU
1870: Dale & Collins listed as IN (page 5/44)
Dale listed as IN (pg 7)
Cole listed as IN (pg 10)
Collins & Welch listed as IN (pg 15)
Collins listed as IN (pg 16)
Collins listed as IN (pg 36)
1880: Dale & Collins now listed again as MU
1900: all listed as W
1910: all listed as W
1920: some Dale’s listed as W , still other listed as IN
1930: listed again as W
Needless to say this is nearly comical and obviously the discretion (or bias) of the census taker…those folks changed “race” as often as we change vehicles in our day. I also wanted to make mention that in the 1900 census in Magoffin Co, KY they have a “special census” listing for those individual’s who were listed as Indian..and they also show a percentile approximation of their blood values. (1/2. 1/4. and the like).
Perhaps the most absurd census I have ever personally seen is one for a Gibson family of mine in which , within the HH was the father, mother and 6 children…and the census taker wrote that the mother and father were B…the next 2 children were listed as W, the next 2 as MU and the 2 youngest as B like the parents! I suppose that in that census takers eyes if you were wee you were black..then you became mulatto…hitting white status in your teens then as you aged became black again?!? Anywho…enough rambling for now…best luck and blessings to all…glad to be back in the “Saponitown Loop” . Hugs from here to there~~~~Laurie
George wrote: this might help a little Linda
INDIAN OCCUPATION AND USE IN NORTHERN AND EASTERN KENTUCKY DURING THE CONTACT PERIOD {1540-1795}
AN INITIAL INVESTIGATION
by A.Gwynn Henderson
Cynthia E. Jobe
Christopher A. Turnbow
UNIVERSITY of KENTUCKY
Page 130
A. the locations of historic indian sites in floyd county were described in a letter dated february 6,1929 To William S.Web from William E. Connelley,Secretary of the kansas state Historical Society {osa:129 Folio Floyd county } Excerpts from this letter follow:
Another village of this same character was on the May farm on the EAST SIDE OF THE BIG SANDY RIVER just below the mouth of Abbotts Creek in Floyd county.the may farm was formerly a mile and a half or 2 miles north of Prestonburg .I have been on the village site and talked with many of the first settlers of that country about it. it was probably a TOTERO village and the TOTEROS were SIOUAN,sometimes known as the shataera indians,I am uncertain now as to whether any relics could be found on the old site or not and it might be difficult to Identify the site ,although it was very plain when i saw it a little more than 50 years ago.
The old people said there were other villages of the kind up the big SANDY RIVER and ESPECIALLY on BEAVER CREEK in Floyd county.It was said that there was village of this kind on the Wireman farm down the BIG SANDY RIVER.
I have more ,I will see about getting it posted this week.
George
I missed this post…interesting, thought I’d bring it back.
All of this is very interesting to me and exciting! My family is a Collins descent and we have history in the Johnson and Martin County areas.I have traced a lot of the names back to some of the ones you have Brenda,and when my Grandmother passed away,they buried her in her “ancestral” homeland in Martin County. I have been to and seen the gravesite in Inez,Ky. My grandpa used to always tease her and when the census people would come,she would run and hide-he would say “go and hide, my little blackfoot!”. As far as what was discussed,there are several people in the Martin & Johnson County area that speak of Tutelo having been there (not as much speak of Saponi though). But yes this is very interesting to me and I hope to hear more on this.
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