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saj wrote: Wasn’t it their daughter Mary Gibson married to Moses Riddle?
I don’t know if this has ever been proven one way or another. I’ve read she was a Collins, but I’ve also read that she was a Gibson.
I think it has been assumed since Moses and Mary were said to have lived in close proximity to both the Gibsons and Collins…but I don’t know if that is the case because in Pat’s book she states that Moses and Mary Riddle lived in close proximity to John Goins and Ned Sizemore.
I guess I need to do some more digging.
I am a big proponent of saving almost everything electronically. I scan a lot of stuff and save them as jpeg’s. I’d love to get some of these primary sources scanned so that we can all see them easier.
The Riddles, after moving to what is now Tennessee, lived near the modern Hawkins County-Hancock County, Tennessee, and Scott County, Virginia, boundary lines. You might check a map for “Kyles Ford” or “Fisher Valley,” or just check the little communities listed along the boundary lines just named. This is where most of the Riddles, Goins and Minor families lived in the early days (descendants by the same names are still there as well).
Newman’s Ridge is close to this region but if you visit in person, you’ll see that the Melungeon Collins and Gibsons were farther west, on a different section of the ridge.
To my knowlege, nothing has ever proved that the Goinses who lived on the Melungeon part of Newman’s Ridge (Alexander Goins) are related to the Goinses who lived and intermarried with the Riddles and Minors mentioned above. They may very well be related but I don’t have proof for it.
Best wishes,
Pat
Dreaminghawk wrote: If I may put my moderator cap on for a moment, I would like to caution everyone that there is little room for sarcasm on a forum devoted to serious research.
If anything I have said in this post offends anyone, then so be it.
Peace
Ken
I find this comment so offensive it is not the job of a moderator to place there own opionions on a board or be insulting to others. Especially using “then so be it” it is like your the only person’s opionion that should be considered. Yes this forum should be for others to post what research they feel they can share to help others. Research is valid only for the immediate time and data that is collected and which data is based on. That is why research is done to check and double check others criteria.
I just wanted to post another thought on the name Valentine; in the 1790 Stokes County census there are six Valentines (Rodrick, Collins, Morgan, Martin, Gibson and Beck), it could have just been a popular name at the time?:confused:
http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/nc/ashe/census/1800/1800census.txt
http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/nc/stokes/census/1790cens.txt
http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/nc/stokes/census/1790sals.txt
Shirley
sammarroq wrote: Thanks Pat for the reply, I had not heard the Germanic influences before. I don’t believe my Gibson’s were German, Martin was born Orange NC and later moved into KY (Floyd/Pike) he is listed as FPC, which would not be true for someone of Germanic descent?? I will keep looking thanks for your time, I don’t want to send you into overload as I see you have been inundated with ?? Thanks again, take care.:)
Shirley
redfox wrote: I find this comment so offensive it is not the job of a moderator to place there own opionions on a board or be insulting to others. Especially using “then so be it” it is like your the only person’s opionion that should be considered. Yes this forum should be for others to post what research they feel they can share to help others. Research is valid only for the immediate time and data that is collected and which data is based on. That is why research is done to check and double check others criteria.
The forum rules do not allow personal attacks. Sarcasm is a form of personal attack. A reminder for all posters to be civil is not a personal opinion or an insult. “Then so be it” only means that I will not apologize for asking posters to show respect to others. The last part of your post confuses me because I don’t understand why the freedom to be rude enhances the experience of sharing research.
Hey Ken and Redfox, I hope that you can meet on another line, maybe email etc, if there are more exchanges re. the moderators position, thanx again for the positive input.
I have been reading this post with interest as these are my families. here are some comments to add to it, I must say this is a great forum that discussions like this can go on, so much great information and also allowing tohers to think and re-examine their research.
I read pat’s book years ago, the first edition, it along with my cousin Jack’s book have been crucial to my reasearch. My grandpaw Minor, direct desc of Hezikiah Minor is still alive at 88 and has been great as well, I have had his DNA done and he tested E3a along with the other Minors of that line. This halogroup is recent say 3000 out of western Africa. I to understand the DNA concern, and it is very true, that the results need to go along with good research and geneology. My line of Goins Y-dna tested E3a as well. My Sizemore line tested Q as everyone knows and it NDN. So if anything it has allowed me to see that the family mix was early on, and also follows what many anthropologists described as bi-and tri-racial groups. It also agrees with the historical context of those times ( I am a history major sorry), as stated in other posts the early mixing of splintered groups of different nationalities was indeed a reality. NDNs were indentured into servitude along with AA and European. And as suggested, got friendly 😉 . I guess this is my long winded way of saying DNA along with historical context, and good research can all be put together, but alone tells not much of anything.
Now I know some of the influences but they are only three lines out of many. And it still does not answer the NDN component as far as tribal affiliation. What I have found has agreed with some of Pat’s work. I have often wondered on that census for Zachariah Minor where the enumerator posted portuguese/Indian that maybe it was Portusky/Indian:confused: Say it to a census taker, what does it sound like?
Well, sorry to be so long winded for one of my few posts, but just enjoyed this thread!
Tari researching: Anderson,Goins,Minor,Roberts,Hopkins,Stapleton,Wallen,Rogers,Sizemores,and many more.
PatinTN wrote: The Riddles, after moving to what is now Tennessee, lived near the modern Hawkins County-Hancock County, Tennessee, and Scott County, Virginia, boundary lines. You might check a map for “Kyles Ford” or “Fisher Valley,” or just check the little communities listed along the boundary lines just named. This is where most of the Riddles, Goins and Minor families lived in the early days (descendants by the same names are still there as well).
Newman’s Ridge is close to this region but if you visit in person, you’ll see that the Melungeon Collins and Gibsons were farther west, on a different section of the ridge.
To my knowlege, nothing has ever proved that the Goinses who lived on the Melungeon part of Newman’s Ridge (Alexander Goins) are related to the Goinses who lived and intermarried with the Riddles and Minors mentioned above. They may very well be related but I don’t have proof for it.
Best wishes,
Pat
Pat,
I am pretty sure Happy Riddle (William’s widow) and her second husband, William Ingraham, lived near Kyle’s Ford. I have found Kyle’s Ford on Google Earth. I think I’ve said it before, but if you haven’t seen Google Earth yet, please download it (it’s free) and explore the hollers and ridges in TN, VA, and NC in three dimensions. You can kind of get a feel for how people would move about the topography.
For some reason, my group left the Hawkins-Hancock County, TN area and moved southwest to Bledsoe County, TN. I don’t know why or if any other families went with them…
Hey Pat, I hope that you see this; as you know my Hardin family was in White county Tn. and they did work on roads etc, during the ealy 1800’s.
I have often seen many Cherokee family names on census records etc., but have you seen any doc’s. that mention other tribal people in that area other than the Shawnee Cherokee people.
I have heard that there was a population of Cherokee Shawnee people in Ky, that had the name Hardin amongst them but never really looked into it.
Anyway , I hope that all is well.
Tom.
Tom wrote: (snip)I have often seen many Cherokee family names on census records etc., but have you seen any doc’s. that mention other tribal people in that area other than the Shawnee Cherokee people.
I have heard that there was a population of Cherokee Shawnee people in Ky, that had the name Hardin amongst them but never really looked into it.
Anyway , I hope that all is well.
Tom.(snip)
Hi Tom,
The Choctaw and Chickasaw often traveled in Tennessee and up into Kentucky to hunt, as well as into Illinois and other diverse places. They are mentioned in some of the Draper Manuscripts and Natchez records, but I can’t right off the top of my hat cite any specific record. I’d say the Draper Manuscripts would be the first place I’d check. The Choctaw and Chickasaw pretty much traveled all over the Southeast for hunting and trading purposes.
The only permanent Shawnee-Cherokee community I know of that was any size was on the border with Scott County, Tennessee, adjoining Wayne and McCreary County in Kentucky.
The Chickamauga Cherokee near modern Chattanooga may have incoroprated some Shawnee, as well as Chickasaw and Choctaw and it isn’t too far from White County. There were many semi-permanent Kentucky hunting camps by the Cherokee and Shawnee (separately), plus a popular trading path, but I don’t know of any permanent settlements except the one just mentioned. Kentucky was mostly hunting grounds claimed by various tribes, off and on, depending on who had won the latest battle.
I am afraid I am not familiar with the HARDIN family from White County.
Pat
Hey Pat, One of the reasons that I ask re, the tribal groups, is because like many families here, our Hardin people did have the oral history of being Native people., but it was not Saponi, but did any of the families that moved into Tn have that tribal history in thier oral traditions?
If you search “Tom’s family” on this forum you’ll see some of our relatives, the generation prior to those images are closer looking to being fullbloods.
The Hardin people from this line are all very Indian looking people, but are thought to be from some of the Virginia Hardin people, that may have been mostly white folks. We are thought to be related to John Wesley Hardin, but so far I need more proof of that.
From what I have seen of the Hardin families, many of them are native people, one question though, would it have been possible for some of the Indian Hardin people to adopt that name, much like what has been suggested of the Collins and Gibson lines, two families that may be directly linked to my Hardins.
Aswell thanx for your reply.
Tom wrote: Hey Pat, One of the reasons that I ask re, the tribal groups, is because like many families here, our Hardin people did have the oral history of being Native people., but it was not Saponi, but did any of the families that moved into Tn have that tribal history in thier oral traditions?
If you search “Tom’s family” on this forum you’ll see some of our relatives, the generation prior to those images are closer looking to being fullbloods.
The Hardin people from this line are all very Indian looking people, but are thought to be from some of the Virginia Hardin people, that may have been mostly white folks. We are thought to be related to John Wesley Hardin, but so far I need more proof of that.
From what I have seen of the Hardin families, many of them are native people, one question though, would it have been possible for some of the Indian Hardin people to adopt that name, much like what has been suggested of the Collins and Gibson lines, two families that may be directly linked to my Hardins.
Aswell thanx for your reply.
Hi Tom,
I’m sure there are many Tennessee families with traditions of tribal ancestry other than Saponi (or Cherokee :)). Different regions in the state tend to have connections to different tribes and traditions. It’s actually a pretty diverse state as far as ethnic history.
It certainly would have been possible for the Hardin name to have be adopted, or perhaps an Englishman by that name married an Indian woman. I’m familiar with John Wesley Hardin but I haven’t studied his family history to know much about it. I mostly just enjoy reading about criminals. 😀
I did look at the pictures in “Tom’s family,” and I really couldn’t see the detail too well, but the sash didn’t have the appearance of Cherokee handwork. Your great-great grandmother certainly does look Indian. The niece, to my eye, did not favor your great-great grandmother.
Photographs can fool the eye and it is hard to come to a good conclusion from only looking at photographs.
Best wishes,
Pat
Tom, I just checked my book and it shows Hardin in Robeson County, North Carolina, which would be the Lumbeee (per Paul Heinegg) and I found several Hardings in Sampson County before 1790. Maybe those two clues might help you with a location.
Pat
Hey Pat and Forest, thanx for the replies.
I have found some of what looks like my family over in the Lumbee_Coharie areas and it really lloks like them, but these folks did move around alot.
hardin is such a common name, it is as common as thier relatives the Collins, Goens, Gibsons, and several others.
Thanx again.
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