- This topic has 36 voices and 123 replies.
-
Posts
-
Hello Linda,
And thanks for the invitation.
I have read the above posts with interest.
There are some people here who would, and have, qualified for tribes in the VA and NC area. As well, I remember a post from a gentleman who had the qualifications for admittance into the Haliwa, and was refused on the grounds that he lived in VA and could not be an active member in the tribe.
Then too, I have seen posts from a gentleman who lived in DC and was greeted by a current member of the Haliwa who suggested to him that he contact his cousin.
These two posts raise confusion within me. I can also see how federal restrictions may, and possibly do, strangle admittance or identity recognition.
I like the idea of the association, personally.
Take for instance the fact that when my father was born, there was no recognition for the Haliwa. It was a family story often told. By the time I was born….just at the time I was born….the Haliwa were recognized by the state of NC. They were then “allowed” to be Indians. However, they are just as mixed in heritage today….if not more so!…than they were in the past when they were not recognized. Now my Dad never returned to Halifax co., or tried to make good with his mother’s people, especially since she turned her back on her children and threw them into an orphanage. Is he then, any less a Haliwa? He is dead. He can’t apply for membership. However, he left us all with the story, no the fact, that we were of that people. How do I feel about that? I feel two ways. I know that I am Indian. I know that I am mixed. I know that I am about as assimilated as a person can get. None of this bothers me. To me, its laughable if it bothers anybody else. I am what I am. I’m not trying to steal bread off anyone’s table, or to order anybody around and tell them what they are or what they should do. Frankly, I find all of this intertribal naysaying, boring. Haven’t you been there, done that. and it didn’t work?
Not only did it not work, it led to the downfall of the entire Indian civilization. This is a fact, not an opinion.
The Indian civilization is gone. Lets face it. Its the 21st century. But are Indians gone? This is going to depend on how you define Indians. You can either pack it up and say die, or you can move into a new phase. 400 years of interbreeding, of dying, of moving, of hiding out, of having you family stories…this is the east coast. Sooner, rather than later, this will happen on the west coast. If the west coast wants to go their own way…in my opinion only…then they must do so. They do not have the power, or, IMO, the permission, to call the shots on the east coast. If they were wise, they would learn from what happened here, because it is their future.
So where do we go from here? What are our goals? What is worth saving? What can be accomplished in the venue of complete assimilation?
Personally, as a woman, I would not be willing to go backward in time and assume the habits of my Indian ancestors. As they lived, I think that women got a raw deal. I am a modern person, with modern responsibilities. I am an Indian. I am an aethiist. I don’t feel comfortable worshiping any god, no matter what you call him/them. This is a reality. Indians do not automatically worship any Indianesque creator, or AUTOMATICALLY adhere to any stereotype.
I find racism boring and in bad taste, no matter who practises it.
This is brand new territory. We are mixed. We have some Indian blood, a little or a lot. East coast Indian culture is essentially dead. If you get really, really picky about it, a lot of west coast tribal culture is dead. I read with interest how so many things about western tribal culture is newly revived. Does this make it invalid? I suppose it depends on who you are talking to. To someone with no invested interest in it, perhaps it does.
We live in a time where the governments of east coast states are starting to make repairation by recognizing tribes that, in the past, they refused to admit the existence of. We live in a time where this makes the “dead” suddenly “alive”. What does this mean? How far is it going to progress? Do you realize that many people like ourselves are actually in a position to make major contributions to this? What is the nature of the contributions that we may make?
There is much to discuss here.
Be Well,
Lynne
.
Linda,
You idea is a good one but since I don’t carry the Blackfoot ID in my family then I will not join you all. As you know I am Cheroenhaka(Nottoway) and Saponi we have never used Blackfoot to ID ourselves. My husband family’s does however ID themselves Blackfoot and they are from the east so I know this ID exists among the siouian people. I have no idea why my family did not ID this way perhaps since I am mixed among Indian Nations my forefathers just choose to tell us we are simply indians. It has taken intensive research for me to find out exactly where I belong in this world which nations I belong to. The Cheroenhaka are wonderful people as we all know, I am very proud to be one of them. I am also very proud to have been born in the homeland of my people and to have grown up there. I will return there one day too to stay. I am also praying that pesky hurricane stays off the coast and does not bother them there.
Linda
Linda, we’ve changed the name to “Eastern Siouan Descendant’s Association” because it was inappropriate to be excluding people who do not have that ID in their families. Some do, some don’t, but we call come from the same people.
Lynne, I see the same thing, that this is a fluid moment in time, when historic changes are being made, and what we all do here and now will matter.
Hi Quest,
If we can define our goals in such a way that promotes the survival of eastern Indian people in the 21st century….perhaps the day will come when individual members of recognized tribes will want to join this association because it is….hopefully…a valuable association that promotes Indian life.
Hopefully, the day may come when it can provide information, networking, and a “kind” of unity of action in East Coast Tribal life.
As far as I know, there aren’t any kind of pan Indian, or even pan regional Indian associations. I could be so very wrong about this, though.
Linda,
I salut your courage and vision for coming up with this.
I wanted to throw out a few ideas for comment for the entire panel. Detailed comment on ANY ideas given here will only help us define what we want to do, what we can do, and what our dreams are. They may not all be doable, especially within any kind of short time frame.
What can we do, as a group, to enliven and inform east coast tribes?
Do we need to generate materials? Perform research? Provide networking? Lobby state’s legislatures? ( as private citizens of course)
What are our ideas about the Indian way of life? What is precious and valuable about it? How do we achieve this in the face of current property laws, tax laws, and the actual death of tribal life and the clan system of identification or inheritance? Are these kinds of issues even pertinent anymore? If they are not pertinent or achivable, what kind of nugget of value did these systems have that we can harvest and promote?
Yours,
Lynne
Lynne, I like your ideas.
I am not sure about the “Pan-Indian” part (that would have to be thought out carefully) but the rest sounded great! 🙂
We are already working on some of that.
As far as the “Indian way of life” — a Cherokee elder (federally enrolled) once told me that culture is dynamic, not static — it changes over time. There are as many Indian ways of life as there are Indians.
Showing the evolution of culture from earliest times until the present would be interesting, noting which aspects of culture had been lost, and what had been retained.
Also did you get my message to you? I sent it over a week ago. If not I can send it again.
vance
Linda,
I’m glad this post was re-entered into the current time frame. I did not know it was here. You know I’m backing this a hundred percent and then some.
My thing has always been that my ancestors be Realized, Recognized and Remembered. From the very beginnings in NC, VA all the way through history to where we all ended up, be it Indiana, Kentucky or a Colorado mountain or Canada. We are all here, we were always here, and we will always be here as long as we can work together on this without certain tedious, quabbles and personal affrontations.
Linda, because of you we can do this. We can put this together and the ESDA WILL lock in the facts that the ancestors WERE and through us STILL ARE.
Of coarse we are a mix. But I’ve smelled some darn beautiful potpourri and colorful bouquets and our ancestors would be greatly proud of the ESDA. An Association can allow us all the time and opportunity to re-establish the ancestors ways and incorporate their lives into our own, as well as our children and grandchildren, etc.
I’m darn proud! Thank you for that, Linda. 😉
I just read through the posts on this thread, and I must say that I like the idea of an Eastern Siouan Descendant’s Association. If I may suggest a Tutelo motto: _Maesani huk miwamihtakai_ (roughly translated: ‘We are all the people.’)
Todd (a.k.a. ‘Tohkai, the fox’)
Originally posted by vance hawkins
Lynne, I like your ideas.
I am not sure about the “Pan-Indian” part (that would have to be thought out carefully) but the rest sounded great! 🙂
Me:
Pan Indian…heh…OK, I was on a roll. I recognise that the purpose of this association does not have that kind of scope.
Vance:
We are already working on some of that.
As far as the “Indian way of life” — a Cherokee elder (federally enrolled) once told me that culture is dynamic, not static — it changes over time. There are as many Indian ways of life as there are Indians.
Me:
Only too true. Not only is it dynamic…things have changed materially a lot. You know one thought occurs to me, which is something that this association, and this forum, seeks to address…in the past tribes were lost when they were scattered. That was one of the primary tribe busting techniques used. If you could scatter the people, you didn’t even have to go to all the trouble of killing them. However, because of improved communications, like the internet, people who still hang on are able to find each other and coalese for the first time. Distance does not have to be the barrier that it was. And consider this as well….the scattering did not happen THAT long ago. Its still within the grasp of research. So like the reclaimation of Tutelo, its still very possible to do this research and make ammends to the ancestors’ experience.
Vance:
Showing the evolution of culture from earliest times until the present would be interesting, noting which aspects of culture had been lost, and what had been retained.
Me:
Yes. There are a lot of interesting and colorful distinctions between eastern woodland peoples and plains people…just visually the changes and differences would be of interest to everyone…and informative to the public at large.
When thinking of non profit aspects…non profit has to be of use and educsation to the public at large. The history of an entire section of the country, the Indian peoples, IS of use and interest to the public at large. Its of historic, and scientific interest.
Vance:
Also did you get my message to you? I sent it over a week ago. If not I can send it again.
Me:
Yike! Yes I did and I sent you an e mail back again. Let me find it and send it again.
Regards,
Lynne
vance
Collins,
We are filling out the papers for a 501(c)(3). We’ll keep you in the loop. Glad you are interested.
Techteach
I really like the idea of an Association. I know that there would people from the Melungeon groups who would be interested in it.
So, when’s our first meeting? I’ll bring the tater salad!! 😉
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
