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Don; Greetings! Sorry, I’m so slow to respond. I am very interested in what you might have to offer us Gardner Green descendants. I would gladly accept any documentation or historical reference you might have.
I, as I most often do, go way out front of my family researchers, and way beyond their obtained documentation to try to see where to go next in our search.
As far as my Green family, it appears our trail is leading us back to the banks of the James River and the early 1600’s. To the towns of the Weanoc, Appomatoc, Paspahegh, and the Arrohattoc.
Sir Thomas Dale came to relieve the Jamestown settlers in 1611. Just a few were left. Some had escaped to the Indians during the “Starving Time.”
Governor Dale built a new capital of the colony at the Arrohattoc town, now called Farrars Island, Chesterfield Co. Va., and named it Henricus. He established Henricus College which had a school for Indians and eventually allowed almost anyone (indentured servants, etc.) to own land and build farms. Those farms spread out from Henricus.
By 1616, it is believed that William and Martha Sizemore held land on Sizemores Creek (Point of Rocks and Johnsons Creek area ?) in the area just west of the confluence of the Appomattox and James Rivers (per research of Joy King). This area is just south/southeast of Henricus.
During the Indian attack of 1622 Henricus was destroyed and Martha and William Sizemore escaped to West and Sherlow Island. I believe it is now called Eppes Island which is just south of Shirley Plantation and in 1622 was the location of a Weanoc (Wyanoke) Indian village.
The Greens are connected in documents in the Mecklenburg County, Buffallo Creek area of Virginia to the Sizemore and Busby family. Thomas Busby was the agent and interpretor in the 1600’s to the Weanocs.
Knowing that the Greens are Indian and that they came out of Prince George County Va. in the early 1700’s and that the Weanocs had villages in Prince George County up until 1722 would lead me to speculate that they were most likely Weanocs.
I would appreciate any info on these tribes which might pertain to my family.
Dan.
Don Greene wrote: Following the logic that if Family A was living as Chickamauga/Cherokee and were disallowed as members of the Cherokee and were in fact Shawnee-Metis then Family B that was living as Chickamauga/Cherokee and were also disallowed must be also Shawnee-Metis. since the family of Gardner Green falls into this catagory then it follows that in all likelihood he was in fact a Shawnee-Metis that lived as a Chickamauga/Cherokee.
It only “follows” if one accepts the logic you have described — which is deeply flawed.
But, it is possible. As is any other non-Cherokee (or non-Indian) origin, such as Dan Akin’s Weanoc suggestion.
The Greens are connected in documents in the Mecklenburg County, Buffallo Creek area of Virginia to the Sizemore and Busby family. Thomas Busby was the agent and interpretor in the 1600’s to the Weanocs.
Knowing that the Greens are Indian and that they came out of Prince George County Va. in the early 1700’s and that the Weanocs had villages in Prince George County up until 1722 would lead me to speculate that they were most likely Weanocs.
What documents speak of Greens near Buffalo Creek? I live near there and have family ties to Indian Greens nearby. How big was Prince George County in the early 1700’s? Didn’t it stretch westward indefinetely? What documents are there of Indian Greens in Prince George? I know people this would be very important to. If you could cite the reference I would greatly appreciate it.
Linda; Sorry, but there are no documents or references discovered yet that prove the Greens coming out of Prince George Co. Va. are Indian and what tribe they descend from. It is a case I have yet to prove. We know they are Indian just because we always have been, but I am speculating on those origins.
This last June 26th, 2006 the Northern Cherokee Nation of the Old Louisianna Territory, a group based primarily upon my Green family, finally sent their petition to the BIA for federal recognition as an Indian tribe. I don’t think they stand a ghost of a chance.
To me, it is not a case of setting county or territorial boundaries but of the flow of colonial settlement. In a way your are correct about the boundaries of Prince George Co. Va. but it was not the case of actual settlement.
From a website named Mizell Records in Surry County, “1691,The land route from Surry into North Carolina was blocked by a large expanse of Indian territory covering the entire area from the Blackwater River to the North Carolina border, Whites had been prohibited from settling south of the Blackwater, and just a few months before Lawrence’s dissapearance the Governor had ordered several squatters removed. It would be another ten years before settlement was permitted in that region.”
And from the Westover Manuscripts of Wm. Byrd in 1728 “About ten o’clock we traveled out of town (Nottoway Indian Town, Assamoosick Swamp) in good order, and the war captains saluted us with a volley of small arms. From thense we proceeded over Black-water Bridge to Col. Henry Harrison’s, where we congratulated each other upon OUR RETURN INTO CHRISTENDOM.”
Checking a topo-map, Blackwater Bridge Va. is between Isle of Wight and Southhampton counties where Hwy. 603 crosses the Blackwater River.
So it appears to me that, even though settlement had reached the Nottoway River (formerly called Wyanoke River) between 1700 to 1720, as late as 1700 general settlement had not crossed the Blackwater River north of the Nottoway and by 1728 “Christendom” still did not extend over the Blackwater in some areas. The headwaters of Blackwater River extends to just south of Hopewell and Petersburg Va.
Bristol Parish of Prince George Co., was a parish set aside for the inhabitants of the Appomattox River valley. From Rowanty Swamp (west Petersburg) up along the south bank of the Appomattox River to Cittie Point (north Hopewell). This area contained the lands of Abraham Wood, Peter Jones, Peter Wynne, John Studivant, Nicholas Overby, William Vaughan, Lewis Green, and Robert Hix. Along north Prince George county were John Wall, and Peter Poythress of Powell’s Creek.
I just want to post things I’ve stumbled across so far;
John Smith found the Weanoc in five villages on both sides of the James River in what became Charles City County in 1618. The main Weanoc town was at Powell’s creek present Prince George Co. Va. Another town was at Wyanoke Point called Wyonoke Fort in present Charles city Co. near West and Sherlow Hundred. Another town (I think this is right) was said to be near Cittie/City Point, which was first called Bermuda City now north Hopewell. In 1619 they had a “Free School” for scholars from Henricus College.
In 1645 a part of the Weanoc(Wyanoke) tribe had leased land in North Carolina on Ahoskie (Auhostky) Swamp on the Wiccacon River from the Tuscaroras. Robert Hix became a trader to the Tuscaroras.
In 1661 the Wyanoke had a village among the Nottoway villages across from Fort Nottoway south of the Nottoway River and mouth of Stoney Creek in present Sussex Co. Va. This area after 1710 would contain lands of Robert Hix.
By 1672 Thomas Busby (agent and interpretor to the Wyanokes) had built a plantation on the main Blackwater Swamp in Surry Co. Va. He sold that plantation to EDWARD GREEN in 1672. Still on the Blackwater, it is written about Thomas Busby “Upon the complaint of Mr. Ar. Jordan, Lt. Thomas Busby, and other English inhabitants on the Blackwater who have made it appear that they have suffered very greatly by the WEANOAKE INDYANS killing and driveing away their Hoggs, it is oredered that they, the Waenoak Indyans doe forthwith kill all the doggs that can hurt a Hog…”
Dan.
Let’s concider another suggested location of a Weanoc town. There is a group called the “Weyanoke Association.” It is a group of mixed race Black/Indian who claim that at Gov. Sir George Yeardley’s plantation south of the James River at Flower de Hundred (now Prince George Co.) there was a Weanoc village that they mixed with. Their website is at http://www.weyanoke.org/weyanoke.html
At http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/7933/walke-sb.html is info on Sir George Yeardley and that Yeardley’s plantation was sold to Joseph Pythress in 1725. Now is it just a coincidence that Peter Poythress was a trader, interpretor, and agent to the Tuscaroras in 1720? This makes me concider the Wyanoke/ Tuscarora connection.
After Bacon’s Rebellion, I’ve seen it written, “The Wyanoke tribe, when Bacon disturbed the Indians, fled to their former settlement on the Roanoke River. In 1711 some old men of the Nottoway Indians, upon being asked if they knew anything of the return of the Weyanokes to Carolina replied;’They did go thither for they were afraid of Squire Bacon, and therefore resolved to go to their own land.”
Joy King’s info on William and Martha Sizemore is at http://www.genpage.com/history_surname.html
The Wayanoke (Weanoc) Fort near West and Sherlow Island is at http://www.geocities.com/naforts/vajames.htm#way
It says, “A major Indian town located on Weyanoke Point, opposite the Turkey Island Cutoff, as noted on John Smith’s map of 1608. They were originally NOT A PART of Powhaton’s dominion AND SERVED AS MIDDLEMEN IN THE TRADE TO THE SOUTHERN NATIONS. The Shirley Plantation was built in 1723.”
The info on Peter Poythress is from the “Poythress Homepage” at http://www.poythress.net/
Dan.
Sorry! That’s http://www.geocities.com/naforts/vajames.html#wey for Weyanoke Fort.
Info on Thomas Busby is at http://www.batbox.org/Chapter-3.pdf
The Henricus website is at http://www.henricus.org/frame.html
Dan.
Here is Weyanoke timeline from the excellent website of Charles City County Va. It is at http://www.charlescity.org/natives/topic-timeline.php
Dan.
Linda; I want to start posting info on inter-related families, ca. 1740 to 1790, from the Buffalo Creek/Roanoke River area along a line to the area of Winns and Polecat Creeks on the Banister. This, going west, is Great Buffalo Creek, Aarons Creek, Hyco River, Banister River, Winns Creek, and Polecat Creek.
First, a short bit on the generally accepted (probably still debatable) relation of the Sizemore, Green, Jackson, and Griffin families. Other relations to the Greens in this area and time are Wall, Vaughan, Overby, and Owen.
Remember that these Sizemores (appox. 2000) and these Greens (approx. 200) each applied to the Guion-Miller Commission for Cherokee claims in the early 1900’s.
This is how the generations are supposed to go;
1. Wm. Sizemore
2. Ephraim Sizemore
3. Ephraim Sizemore, William Sizemore, George Sizemore
1. Wm. Sizemore
2. Henry Sizemore
3. James Sizemore, Edward Sizemore, Sarah Sizemore
1. Henry Green & Eliz. Griffin
2. John Green, Stephen Green, Frederick Green, Richard Green, Henry Green Jr., Dorcas Green wife of Wm. Jackson mother of Eliz. Jackson and Eliz. Jackson being the wife of the above Edward (Old Indian Ned) Sizemore, Winifred Green wife of the above Wm. Sizemore
My Gardner Green is listed with John Green, son of Henry Green, on the 1764 (Sunlight on the Southside) Tithables list for (old) Lunenburg Co. Va., St. James Parish (later became Mecklenburg Co. Va.) It is therefor assumed that he was John’s son.
From the South Carolina Magazine of Ancestral Research; John Busby of the Province of South Carolina, to William Sizemore of Mecklenburg County, Province of Virginia concideration: 100lbs current money of Va land: in Mecklenburg on both sides of GREAT BUFFALO CREEK, beginning on Henry Green’s line to Wm. Griffin’s line, crossing Great Buiffalo, Green’s corner to beginning, 200 acres. Witnesses: GARDNER GREEN, Edward Ware, John Sizemore (son of Wm. Sizemore), recorded 9 Nov., 1772 – Book 3, pg. 483, 29 Oct. 1772.
Dan.
I want to post this next to see if anyone knows anything about it. It’s from the Colonial Pettypoole page of George Baumbach’s and already mentioned on this forum.
Seth Pettypoole was the son of Wm. Pettypoole. and Wm. was a Virginia Indian trader and acquaintance of Richard Smith and John Evans, this John Evans supposedly being either the brother-in-law or father-in-law of Capt. Robert Hix.
We find Seth Pettypoole on Aarons (also called Tewahominy) Creek in 1756.
“Seth Petty Poole of Halifax County to NICHOLAS OVERBY of Lunenburg County, 100 acres, part being in Lunenburg County and part in Halifax County, on both sides of Tewayhominy Creek, the lower part of 404 acres granted by patent. Wit. Luke Smith Jr., Zachariah Smith, RALPH GRIFFIN, RICHARD GRIFFIN, 2 Aug., 1756.” and Seth’s brother John, “John Pettipool, 200 acres on Aaron’s Creek beginning at John Pool’s and PETER OVERBY’S line thance up the same, 12 Aug. 1752.”
Then we have in 1825 the “Original Deed to Buffalo Baptist Church” at http://www.rootsweb.com/~vameckle/d0buffch.htm The property was given, I think, by Henry Green 3rd. It mentions “Stephen P. Pool and William Wall, Justices of the Peace in the County aforesaid…”
My point to this is; It appears that settlement to this area, beginning I believe around 1745 to 1750, contained elements of the Indian Trading community, from the 1700 to 1750 timeframe, from the Nottoway River. This, to me, supports my belief that Henry, and Richard Green along the Nottoway River, shown on references to deeds from that time frame and area, are the same as the ones showing up later in the Great Buffalo Creek to Banister River area.
Dan.
Another reference; Lunenburg County Va. Deed Books 1761-1764 FHLbook, 4 may, 1761 Syth Petty Pool & wife Martha of Halifax Co. to GEORGE MOORE of Lunenburg Co., 26 lbs for 100 acres in Lunenburg Co. on east side of Tewayhominy Creek adjoining Nicholas Overby. Wit: PETER OVERBY, WILLIAM SIZEMORE, & STEPHEN GREEN
Will of Henry Green Jr. 2-23-1761, 5-5-1761; Will Book 2/8 has as executors; William Sizemore and John Green. One of the witnesses was GEORGE MOORE
Will Book 2, pg. 106; Henry Green (this is Henry Green Jr.); Inventory and appraisal of the estate of Henry Green in accordance with the order of May Court 1761, made 29 July, 1761 by GEORGE MOORE, Daniel Gold, and PETER OVERBY.
I think that the Sizemores and Greens were well acquainted with the Pettypooles.
Dan.
Hello fellow Green people — my grandmother was a Green whose family came from Ft. Royal, Warren Co, Virginia area. She was born in 1874; can’t believe that I’m 56 years old and my GRANDmother would be 136 years old today if alive. On the tail end of an old family, lol.
My grandfather was Milliard Fillmore Green and his father was Isaac Newton Green, b. 1824 in Ft. Royal. His father was Jesse Green, born 1788 and I ‘think’ his father was George.
I remember as a child my grandmother talking about her family from Kentucky. I believe that she thought her ancestors were from Kentucky because that is all she heard as a child from her family–getting letters from relatives in Kentucky. It was only years later that we discovered that the Green’s had previously been in Virginia.
I know that Isaac Newton and his wife Sarah and 2 small children along with Jesse [ggg must have been deceased] came to north central West Virginia and settled.
If anyone has any info of this branch of Greens would appreciate it.
Thanks.
techteach;3358 wrote: My family includes many Greens, descended from Regnal Green (1724?) of Berkely County, West Virginia. They left there in the late 1700s and went to Licking County, Ohio and then some went on to Iowa in 1840. This family is believed to be Shawnee.
Cindy
There seems to be a wide variation in the dates of Regnal’s birth. Robert Green in The Green Tree writes that he was born in 1709. I find this hard to believe based on the years his children were born. I descend from Allen, a son from his first marriage. That wife’s maiden name I have recorded as Maude Totten, but I am beginning to wonder if she was married to another man before Regnal, possibly a Butt? Do you know anything about her?
My genealogy does not have your Allen listed as Maude’s son, but rather the Sarah with the unknown, possibly Duncan, last name. I don’t have any children from Maude.
My genealogy was done by Mary Hicks. I think I put you in touch with her, didn’t I?
Cindy
PS: I don’t think we are connected to most of the Greens on this thread, at least not the last several postings.
techteach;38191 wrote: My genealogy does not have your Allen listed as Maude’s son, but rather the Sarah with the unknown, possibly Duncan, last name. I don’t have any children from Maude.
My genealogy was done by Mary Hicks. I think I put you in touch with her, didn’t I?
Cindy
PS: I don’t think we are connected to most of the Greens on this thread, at least not the last several postings.
Yes, Mary and I have exchanged a few emails. I’m not sure what my source was for Maude being the mother of Allen.
Bill Childs;3782 wrote:
…………………………
On the 1810 Licking Co., Ohio Tax List :
Charles, in Granville Twp.
George, in Granville Twp.
2 Benjamins, in Licking Twp.
Daniel, in Licking Twp.
James, in Newton Twp.
James, in Union Twp.
………………………….
This Benjamin D Green 1755-1883 in Licking in 1810 is the 3x g-grandfather of my 2x g-granduncle.
So…
My 2x-g-grandfather Dora MCS Smith passed the Blackfoot oral history in our family.
His brother David B Smith 1878-1939 married Louretta Mae Green 1881-1947 her 2x g-granfather was Benjamin Green.
Their daughter Gladys Smith 1907-1979 is my 1st cousin 3x removed.
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