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Sorry for misspelled words, but i can’t edit this.
Also what i just said has not always been my opinion. I once too thought ALL my Indian blood was probably Cherokee (I was never certain). I am now fairly certain that some was Cherokee, but some was not, nad we may very well have been, okay I’ll say it — we were “probably” — “Eastern Blackfoot” as well, judging from S. Indiana and Va evidence of the origin of these people.
I don’t expect “federal recognition” — we don’t meet BIA standards (few can) — but I can still keep learning and I know who I am regardless.
vance
Linda, Troy, CoheeLady, Techteach, Rodtree20744, Forest Hazel, and Vance;
I thank all of you for your kind words, your warmth, and your advice.
Again, what a pleasure it is to discover a forum full of people who are conciderate, polite, and intelligent.
As many have pointed out, there are several Green families to be studied in the old Virginia and North Carolina tribes (and study them I will), but I also believe that the Cherokee presence in colonial Virginia has been greatly underemphasized.
Cherokees were officered (captains Yellowbird and Outacity) in the Virginia Colonial Militia and had accompanied Captain Lewis on his ill-fated 1756 Sandy expedition to the west.
Cherokees had marched into colonial Williamsburg Va. to meet with the Nottaways for a treaty of peace.
They were recorded as living at Castlewood and Fredericksburg alongside the whites in southwest Va.. Southwest Virginia is an area where towns still bear names such as Chillowie, Konnerock and Hiwassie.
Vance; As far as the “Cherokee” groups in Mo. and Ar. I do not believe that there is even one that is legitimate. There is no hope or chance that they will receive federal recognition as Indian tribes because not one of them has ever had or maintained a relationship with the government of the United States. Not even concidering fake geneology or history, on this one fact alone they are doomed to fail.
It is such a simple thing to understand that it almost seems commical that anyone could believe otherwise.
Being United States citizens of Native American descent does not a federal Indian tribe make.
Like you, what these groups are doing and have attempted to do makes me angry and extremely sad.
Dan.
Dan, I think I like you and your ideas!
You realize what is happenin’. Most people I have tried to talk to about this think I am against federally unrecognized tribes and I am not! But before a solution can be come up with, you have to be honest with yourself, know what is possible and what is not, and work from there.
NONE of the groups from Arkansas and Missouri can be federally recognized, just as none of the Alabama or Virginia tribes will fit the criteria for federal recognition — but those states (plus a few others, but especially those two) have a mechanism for becoming “State Recognized”.
So either i.] BIA standards have to change or ii.] More states need to follow the examples of Virginia and Alabama and provide some mechanism for obtaining state recognition, or iii.] things continue as they are in most of the country, and many people of known American Indian descent will never be citizens of any Tribe or Indian Nation or iv.] federally recognized tribes themselves risk losing their status and soveirgnty (for which they have fought long and hard legal battles) for those of us whose ancestors left the tribe at some point.
Of these 4 options, I think “iii.” is most likely, with a remote possibility for “ii.” People should quit thinkin about “Federal recognition” unless they wanna go on a big publicity campaign writing congress et cetera, to change BIA requirements. It’d be easier to make your home state aware, and states of the “Old South” where “States Rights” people are still powerful, might support the idea of state Recognized tribes.
Since many of the “Greens” have been left off the rolls, I guess this as good a place as any to talk about these things. But I am firmly convinced that step one is realizing the reality of the situation — NO Federal recognition is possible. Once we realize this we can go on to other possible options.
Since many Federally recognized tribed DO NOT want a group of people calling themselves members of that tribe BUT WILL support known groups calling themselves members of a society, Club, or Association that is interested in the welfare of that tribe, this is the best a person who lives in a state that has no laws for state recognition, can hope for. Let the federally recognized people know us face to face in such organizations, and walk from there. This is my “pulpit” and I get on it every chance I get. ha ha. This can be done immeditely, without any kissin’ up to any politian. I’ve talked to CNO officials and they would SUPPORT this idea!!! BUT when I brought it up to Mo & Ar groups, they thought I was the anti-Christ and tore me to shreds! I gave up. But when I hear people like you Dan, well — I wish there were more like you. Maybe one day they’ll realize . . . but if they’d realize NOW and start workin’ NOW for somethin that is possible, it’d mean less work for their kids to do later.
Time for me to step down off my soapbox and hand the talkin ‘ stick to someone else. 🙂
vance————————————————————-
Vance;
I agree with you on this issue 100%. I have racked my brain to try and come up with a solution to this situation. The solution though must be in direct relation to the ultimate goal.
What do all of these people who have come forward to stake a claim on the Cherokee Nation want? Well, of course, they want to step up and be counted as fully designated cherokees by everyone on earth and this should be done simply on the basis of them saying it should be so.
This goal is not realistic. It’s a myth.
In line with what you pointed out, we must work to alter and change that goal. That can only come about by people like you Vance “Preaching” the truth and not accepting anything less than the truth. You have been very brave.
Simply put, our goal should be to gather together to honor our great culture and heritage and the memory of our beloved ancestors. Why should it be anything else?
We should also grow to love and support our cherokee brothers and sisters that chose to remain in the Cherokee Nation.
The Cherokee story and it’s history is very complicated, but extremely fascinating. With the cherokee border stretching from Ga. through S.C., N.C., to Virginia and later Tennessee and Al. litterally hundreds and hundreds of whites and blacks had married cherokee people over a 200 year stretch.
Elements of at least a dozen other tribes have also been a part or became a part of the Cherokee Nation in recorded history.
We must study and continue to dig deep into recorded, documented history to learn about our people. It is by and because of ignorance that so many are led astray.
Lastly Vance, let’s be proud of who we really are including all of our ancestry be it white, black, red, or whatever. Many “Cherokee” groups want you to focuss on just your Indian heritage and deny everything else.
I am proud of my French Hugenot families of Via, Fugate and Maupin and my Scots and Irish families of Akin, Mckee, Jamison and Robinson, and my German families of Starnes, Brink, and Stivers and my English families of Baker, Peoples, and Stone.
Hawkins, what a great name that is.
Dan.
thanks Dan!
ha ha — pretty good. if you go to http://www.turtletown.com — it is run by a friend of mine — he’s the guy who talked me into the stance I now have. the ideas I spoke of are his originally.
I am also Scots-Irish, German, English, Dutch, Dad said French but I have never found it and neither did he, AS WELL AS Cherokee, and I believe “Blackfoot” too from evidence found here on this website. And there is Akin on mom’s side of the family, by the way. Mom’s side has Plaster (originally Plascher, but it was Anglicized), Jonas (called Black Dutch from Pa to Ill to Tx to Ok), Attaberry, McLain(various spellings), Porter, Walker (Ms).
But I can not say 100 percent that all “Blackfoot” are Saponi (Sorry Linda) — I am not yet convinced of this. I need a correlation between the surnames who are known Saponi and the believed Blackfoot surnames of people claiming “Blackfoot” ancestry. A simple statistical test can be performed . . . 🙂
But Linda, you are most of the way there.
Dad said the “Hawkins” name by the way came from Ireland :).
Akin is a pretty good name too.
vance hawkins
Dan,
Just a note to let you know, that I am of French Huguenot descent too. My French Huguenot ancestors surnames are: Agee, Bondurant, Chastain, & Faure.
Sincerely,
CoheeLady
Coheelady;
The French Hugenots are a fine people. They came early to colonial Va. and contributed a great deal to the history of America.
My multiple great grandfather Gabriel Maupin (it means pinecone in French) became the man in charge of the armory in Williamsburg. His grandson Gabriel Maupin hosted the first Masons in Williamsburg in his tavern. Many of America’s founding- fathers attended there.
In my Maupin line I am related to myself. Two Maupin lines came back together here in central Mo. and later “viola” there was me.
My Fugates settled in southwest Va. at the foot of Clinch Mountain on Moccasin Creek where some of them took cherokee brides. Some of those that didn’t became so inter-married that they became the “Blue” Fugates. They acquired a genetic disease that made their skin the color of a blue workshirt.
The Via’s descend from the main overseer of the Maupin’s forest holdings in Pyranees France.
I would love to hear of your Hugenots.
Vance;
I have been working with Darren McCathern of the Chickamaugas. He helped bring me out of the brain-washed state that I was in. His web-site is http://www.comanchelodge.com/chickamauga-cherokee.html
I owe Darren a great deal of thanks.
Dan.
Well I’ll just have to say I owe a great debt of gratitude to Mike Johnson. He is the creator of http://www.turtletown.org
What Mike Johnson says he can provide documentation for. He is a friend of Chad Smith, Principle Chief of CNO. He is unenrolled and unenrollable, but that doesn’t stop their friendship.
I have a running quarrel with Darren because of what he says about enrolled Cherokees on his website. When I read a web page and someone says the Chickamaugans did this and that but provides no documentation to back it up, I question that persons version of history. Ask Darren to provide documentation to support his accusations against enrolled Cherokees on his web page and see what he says. 🙂 ha ha — this probably isn’t the right forum to bring this up, tho.
I live in Comanche country, Southwestern Oklahoma, and have lived here most of my 50 years on this earth. I have Looney, Guess, and Brown surnamed Chickamaugan ancestors who lived pretty close to Darrens, and we’ve e-mailed before. I even have a grandma named “Loney” and he has one named “Lonie” I think! But he’s just wrong about enrolled Cherokee people. He’s got some good ideas, but he’s wrong about that. Ask him for documented proof of his statements — he just made some of that “Chickamaugan History” up . . . sorry. That is unless he changed his web site, I haven’t looked at it in mnths.
vance
Vance:
I am interested in your McLains. My ggggrandmother was a McLane, sometimes spelled as other versions of the name. She is my ancestor who claimed to be Blackfoot. She was from Beaver County, PA. , but reportedly was an orphan. None of the family investigating that line of the family has been able to find out any information about her parents, nor specific records of birth. Are your McLains native?
Cindy
Dan, I sent you a couple of private messages concerning Darren’s website. Please maintain that confidentiality.
Techteach, My McClain’s can be traced back to Scotland. When King James I of England (the Stewart line and known as King James V of Scotland and publisher of the King James Bible) came to power, many Scotsmen emigrated to Northern Ireland. A generation later many of these people came to American and became what we now call the Scots-Irish. Well, My McClains went to Ireland and a generation later came to Amrica settling in Virginia. Now some of moms folks were called “Black Dutch” — but I think that was the Jonas’es. I have never heard of Indian rleatives through Mom’s side of the family, but there is this “Black Dutch” thing some have said was Indian. I also read that meant “German Jew” and “Jonas” was sometimes associated with Jewsish surnames.
Wish I could be more help.
vance
Vance:
Any idea where in Virginia? My McLane has no listed parents. She was an orphan in Western PA, but there were some family members from the VA area. I doubt any connection can be made, because we are even unsure of a birthdate, but since this family has the “Black Dutch” name and my McLane was Blackfoot… That is, if I understood you correctly and this descriptor does apply to your McLains and not your Jones.
Cindy
Hi Techteach,
I’ll have to look it up. It might take a while, tho.
But I promise, I WILL get back to you about this soon.
vance
Thanks Vance,
I know this is only a long shot, but if anything comes of it, I have several family members who are very interested in who our McLane was and where she came from. As I indicated before, my gggrandmother, Nancy Agnes McLane, is my Eastern Blackfoot link.
Cindy
Hello everyone. I am a cousin of Troy and Dan. Dan sent me the link to this forum and what a joy to see a place where we can share our thoughts, documentation, etc. Great Place DAN! I’ve found that the reading has been interesting and insightful. I will keep coming back to see what’s happening and to offer any documentation that I can contribute. Thanks again.
Vic
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