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seeker;37715 wrote: I just keep sitting here going over the same information. Im kind of blown away.
When I found this place I was so overjoyed I cried. I had discovered the mystery of our Blackfoot.
I thought I was here looking for one line. Then, it turned into three, and four. Now, I don’t even know.
Not only did our ancestors make history, they made us. We are that history, and were making it known.
Im glad you liked the article Dreaminghawk. I thought for sure it would have been know of here already.
Im glad Im contributing in some way.
My experience is very similar. I grew up learning we were Quaker and Blackfoot through my Grandmother, which her Grandfather (Smith) passed to her. Ten years ago I thought more like what you describe – like I was looking for one full-blood ancestor.
Years later I learned from a cousin on a different line (whose mother had not died in her 30s like my grandmother’s mom) which specific ancestor was said to be Blackfoot. I narrowed in on that line but as I researched saw connections in all the lines marrying into it and kept getting overwhelmed and confused.
Then I got Richard Haithcock’s main book and he told me if you find one you would find more. At first I was skeptical. After a few months research later it sunk in he was right. Then I started researching my grandfather’s lines too, and started finding Saponi links on his mother’s side. Now in this thread and the one with NannaNae I’m finding more intermarriage on my unknown lines into my known Saponi ones.
I’m at seven lines now. After much more research the line that was said to be Blackfoot matches Tutelo family names and locations, four lines are Saponi mixed, one line matches with Catawba patterns, and one seems to be purely PA Dutch living alongside the Seneca. When I looked at it that way for awhile what I realized is all of my mother’s grandparents were mixed or living in the mixed community. After the 1700s everyone is mixed (Metis in Canada)
Now going back and looking at all the lines and how they feed in it is seven different generations that all connect to each other along the specific line that had the Blackfoot oral history. Really it is amazing how oral history and internet technology combine to verify each other. Some things I can’t explain – like the feeling that your ancestors want you to find them or that they found you.
So many people died early in my family losing chunks of family history that it was a necessity to connect with others. Different people have had different pieces and when you collect enough of them it starts to paint a fuller picture. Blackfoot versus Saponi confused me for a long time. Now I get the difference between Blackfoot and Saponi. Judging by family history Blackfoot is a bigger circle including neighboring tribes and remnants that joined migrations. Saponi is the biggest circle within the Blackfoot circle.
I understand the emotion when you finally start getting enough of the picture. It’s like a light bulb going on. Many things in my life make much more sense than they did before I knew all this. I’m more peaceful and in better spirits which makes me a better father. Hopefully one that can pass these stories to my daughters so it lasts another seven generations.
I grew up knowing I was “Virginia Indian” on my father’s side. I started researching and couldn’t find that full-blood line you mention. One day at my mom’s, my aunt pulled out the old family pictures. As we looked at my Meadows gggrandma, Becky and I both went omg, she looks full-blood. My mom’s family kept their ndn heritage close to heart. It was known to the adults but not talked about.
Started finding surname hits with recognized tribes in VA/NC on my mom’s side. Some 13 years later, with most of the work done here at Saponitown, I have yet to find a line on my mom or dad’s side that I can prove ISN’T mixed-blood. I have yet to find a line that arrived in America since 1740. I have yet to find a line that wasn’t born and raised in VA/NC. (Prior to 1700 several lines may have originated in various northern colonies.)
We danced today at NC School of Math and Science 23rd annual powwow in Durham. I was thinking as I danced, I’m dancing at home today. My direct lines haven’t strayed from this area for 1000 years but our people are scattered everywhere.
Thanks guys. Ive been off and on in my research for over twenty years now, so its hard to say how much time Ive actually spent altogether. I know Ive had years in between of down time, and years digging into it.
Not knowing who, and who not to expect with NA lines at this point, Im considering posting my surnames and see what happens. It seems you never know who or how things might connect with someone on here. Im not sure how to go about it or where to start really. Having the spoken unknown NA on my moms side is another interest for me that may show up here as well.
I don’t recall where I was at with this, but dead ends on all the wives for a couple generations down this Harrell line. Or Everett, Redding, and Ward to be specific.
Searching Wards in early OH I find many possible fathers for Mary Ward b.1816 OH, wife of Jesse.
So far Ive found one tree that even connects with her specifically on Ancestry with any family info…
It says her mother is Sarah ??? b.1790 in PA. and d.1870 Iowa. She re-marries a Warehime and has several children with him also. They move to Iowa where she rests.
She had three daughters with Ward beforehand. It has no first name for him but says born about 1790 Ireland. No death date or location. One of those daughters, Marys sister marries a Grace in Decatur Co. IN, moves around IN every decade after, and then to Missouri by 1880 where she rests. The youngest of the three daughters is born 1821, so Mr. Ward would have passed after that date sometime.
Almost as wandering as Mary herself…. She marries Jessie in Decatur IN 1842 and I cant find them on records again till shes widowed in 1899. Or so Ive been able to tell.
I need to check out the Jacob Harrell whos wife is Mary in Wabash IN and see if dates put them close to same age…may just be relations…
Dug up this picture of Mary Harrell’s g-grandson, my 2g-grandfather, Almon C Marshall (b. 30 Oct 1858 Williamsburg IN – d. 18 Aug 1939 Johnson IN) Oldest picture I have on my line that connects to the Harrells. His mother was Melvilla Cotton, my Harrell marries into the Cottons. His father was a country doctor, Dr Jacob Abraham Marshall.
Another one of Almon Marshall’s ancestors is the Quaker martyr Mary Dyer – hung in Boston in 1660. She is 6x g-grandmother to Almon.
A distant cousin was nice enough to share this with me. She is a daughter of Jesse and Mary. If Chester is Phillips father,
as I assume she would be g-granddaughter. Same generation as your photo.
I discovered it was my phone giving me trouble getting pictures on here, computer works fine.:rolleyes:
This is Philip E. Harrell b.1843 and Lucetta Jane Maxson b. 1850. G Grandpa Philip E. Harrell had red hair and raised my Grandpa Merton Harrell as his own until he became to old. Clara Harrell Alderfer(ms) Rosebaum b.1886 was my Grandpa Merton’s mother. He never lived with her after she was married to Lawrence Rosebaum. ( G Uncle Perky) George Harrell took Grandpa Merton Harrell as his own. I can remember Uncle Perky was a tobacco chewer that helped my Grandpa build his house. Daughter of Philip E . Harrell : Arminia (Minny) Harrell b.1874 was my Grandma Ruth Schoff Harrell’s mother. Yes, Clara and Arminia Harrell were sisters making my Grandparents first cousin.
Just a few things that I have found. We have a distant cousin who is a life time genealogist that has studied the Harrell and Schoff line. In his quest he has even secured a copy of the will of Philip Harrell b. 1787 naming all his children which includes Jesse Ray Harrell b. 1813.
So glad I found this message board…. Have a good day! Cathie
Welcome cousin Cathy. Good to see you here as well as on Ancestry 😉 Please do dive into the research with me! Thanks for posting the pictures and sharing your infromation.
Been looking at my Harrell line more. Best I can tell it traces back to John Harrell b. 1665 Nasemond VA d. 20 Jan 1714 Chowan NC. Then Richard Harrell (1700-1758), William Harrell (1736-1822) Mary Harrell (1765-1827) all in Bertie Co NC. In 1787 Mary Harrell is in Bardstown KY. The other lines marrying into Mary’s line are Padgett, Wimberley, Barbee, Vaughter, Noel and Miller.
There is some talk of the Harrells early to Nasemond here
http://http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/HARRELL/2011-10/1319665787
Since New Bern, NC wasn't established until 1710 and very few Harrells etc. appear in the Colony of NC before 1728, my guess is that most of those who first settled in Nansemond county, VA came into the James River and Cheaspeake Bay areas of VA. and a couple of generations were born between 1655 and 1700. There was a Thomas Harrell who obtained a land grant early (at least, he applied for a grant) . Possibly this was Thomas s/o Thomas d. 1681. However, it appears to me that Adam, James, John, Francis and Richard who obtained land before 1728 in Nansemond co., VA did not think they would be in NC after the line was surveyed in 1728. Later, 1728 and after, John Jr., John Sr, Edward and some others knew they were getting land in NC.
DNA has proven that there were possibly three or more separate lines of Harrells, Harrills, Herrells etc. in the Northern Neck of VA.. Several generations were born there before they began their westward
movement after 1750.
Another Catawba-Saponi line Harrell marries into is Portee – Sarah Harrell (1896-1972) daughter of John Harrell (1860-1930) and Gracie Soloman marries Julus Guise. Their daughter Lila Guise married Dorsey Portee. source
Another Saponi Harrell descendant is Polly Chavis-Harrell (1869-1952) from the Wateree River Re-settlement in South Carolina – Catawba/Saponi/Croatan/Lumbee, picture circa 1930 Daughter of John Chavis and Martha Scott, married to Henry Harrell, son of Parker and Mihalia Harrell
seeker;38170 wrote: Welcome cousin Cathy. Good to see you here as well as on Ancestry 😉 Please do dive into the research with me! Thanks for posting the pictures and sharing your infromation.
Well thank you!
Linking other threads with Harrell info back to this main Harrell thread.
Help with Holtz/Ford of Doddridge West Virginia
Aldridge FORD m’d Nancy Harrell on 31 July 1840 Harrison Co., VA (WV)
In 1840 Fauquier Co., Martha HARRELL, age 70 to 79, had an FPC (Free Person of Color – a common designation of Indian) female of 10 to 23 yrs old in her household.
Clay,Stezer & Pinion/Pinson families
*3rd Wife of [1] Jonathan Wilson:
.. +Nancy Harrell b: 1800 Warren Co. KY m: 06 Jun 1821 in Warren Co KY b: 1800 in Warren Co. KY
I visited my grandparents graves this weekend and in the cemetary they are buried in are: Moore, Smith, Harrell, Cole, Webb, Watkins, Rogers, Cummings…just thought I’d mention this since these names have appeared here on Saponitown.
All of these families custered together in an area crawling with mixed bloods apparently they fit right in cause they started marrying each other right of the bat. I have heard many times that Speed was once populated by mixed bloods but they moved on…they sure did. They ended up in Gardners in Wilson Cty. Gardners is on Hwy42 between Pinetops and Wilson. The Etheridge family actually lived just to the south of Gardners heading toward Saratoga. If you pull up Gardners on map quest you can see the area I am talking about. The Webb family lives here too and the Harrell and the Varnell and the Rogers..
Some also stayed in their homeland near Toisnot Swamp in Wilson County this is where we come from: Rogers, Barnes, Woodard, Daniel, Thomas, Gardner, Harrell, Taylor, Webb with the exception of Woodard all of these families can be traced to Indian Woods the Woodards were Nottoway.
Other children of Arthur and Beatrice Forbes:
(All born and married in Edgecombe Co)
Hiram, b.abt. 1808, m’d Millicent “Milly” Harrell in 1835.
So he connects to the Harrells too. The Harrells are dark skinned. In high school one of my good friends was a Harrell and she was dark skinned Like most in the area it seems. And he connects to the Eason also remember my Rogers line connects to the Eason.
Haralson/Harrelson/Harilson surname
I also have to find a Gen site I saw for Harrells + Powell + Daniels . etc., Edgecombe, NC.
Nancy Harrell b: 1800 Warren Co. KY m: 06 Jun 1821 in Warren Co KY
Anthony Hall married 22 Sept 1792 in Caswell Co NC to 1st Winney Harrell.
I believe they were called Chowanoc. My Harrell descendants are supposed to be Chowanoc, however I haven’t found a direct link other than they’re very apparent physical make-up.
Tracing surnames with Saponi heritage
My Surnames are, Simon and Osborn Jeffreys, Hill, Norfleet, Rhodes, Walker,Chisholm, Ryves,Chism, Green, Thomas, Brown, Davis, Martin, Webb, Nordin, Fuller, Carroll, Daniel, Webb, Mathews, Emmons, Grubbs, Bennett, Mayes, Laymon or Lehmann, Reeves, Green, Ford, Maxey, Lewallen, Walden, Rhodes, Spear, Cotton, Blair,Harrell, etc.
I would like to make a collection of possible fathers for Philip b.1787 here. Another possibility Cathie has brought to my attention is a James Harrell. If nothing else, we can throw all options on the table for review. Please feel free to add your research on this if you’d like Cathie. From what little I’ve found so far on this James, he is a brother of Chester (and Marcs Mary also). Born 1747 in New Kent, Virginia and dies 1818 in Nelson, Kentucky. According to one tree I found so far, he marries a Margaret Cotton b.1754 in Virginia, d.1800 to 1810 in KY. She is not beyond age to birth Philip.
Same story as before though, this tree lists no son named Philip. However, giving ten sons for Richard (but no daughters?), including Chester, ones bound to be a father of Phillip. Maybe if we figure out who all lived in Nelson KY, we can at least use the process of elimination to get closer to the truth?
This Harrell family seems to be quite massive I must add. Figuring out who’s tied to who is the problem. Having exhausted leads on Chester, I’m exited to have another possibility to dig into here. Thanks Cathie! 😀
Oh wow. Yet another tree….
James Cadrous Harrell the 2nd born 1748 in Nansemond Co VA, died 1809 in Bardstown, Nelson County, Kentucky, Son of same name born 1700 in New Kent Co, VA , mother is Grace Cotton b.1702 Bertie Co NC. Wife Elizabeth Johnson b. 1750 NC.
Evidently more relations to hash through…but different James Harrells. This is not going to be easy.
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