- This topic has 30 voices and 188 replies.
-
Posts
-
Bill; Perhaps I was wrong in saying that it was an interpretation. Of course, you know that either the Totero or Appomatoc guides of the 1673 Needham and Arthur expedition named the people, that where to be known later as “Cherokee,” Tomohitans or Tommehetons. It is most likely the Totero guide because I believe the Algonquins referred to them as Rickohocken.
The interpretation could well have been “Far Water People” or some such thing. I believe it is said that the Moheton name was interpreted to have something to do with water.
Dan.
I am a Green from Greentown in Brunswick County VA. Greentown is an Indian community on still on the Saponi Reservation land. There are also Greens in the Haliwa-Saponi tribe. There is also a Greentown in Nash Co NC. I have also seen quite a few Greens in the Hawkeye community in the Southern part of NC as well as the Lumbee area.
Green seems to be a pretty common Indian name in VA and NC.
Barry
Hey Barry, are you related to the Greens that are members of the Haliwa- Saponi?? That would be my grandmother’s side of the house.
Rod Northern
We do have some Haliwa Saponi Indians who have married Fort Christanna Saponi Indians in Greentown. We have a couple of Haliwa-Saponi who have houses in Greentown now. Warren County NC, where the Haliwa are from, neighbors Brunswick Co VA. We grew up shopping in Roanoke Rapids and so did the Haliwa.
One of my Haliwa cousins Beverly lives in Maryland. Maybe you could connect with her there
Barry
I would love to talk with your cousin about a Green connection. My great Uncle is named Marcellous Green, he lives in Holister. His father was John Allen Green. I also a ties to the Richardsons and Lynchs of the same area. If you want to off line with this my e-mail address is rodtree20744@yahoo.com.
Rod
Yes, Rod we can take this off line. I will email you. Thanks
Barry, barryc@winwinworld.net 252-521-1821
Wow! I started this thread back in Dec. 2002. Three years ago? Geez! I realize that most of this should have been posted in different catagories, so I am now thanking the moderators for their tolerance.
Realizing that the first Euro settlements were along the James River in the early 1600’s, later stages of this were along the Appomattox in the late 1600’s and north of the Nottoway in the late 1600’s early 1700’s. The Nottoway and Meherrin Rivers were the edge of the western frontier. This was Indian villages, trading houses, frontier forts, Indian traders, Interpretors, Longhunters, and Woodsmen’s cabins. It seems there are very few general histories written about this area and time period. Why???
Henry Green of Great Buffalo Creek (present Mecklinburg Co. Va.) came from old Surry Co. Va. and I believe it is he who lived on Birchin Swamp and the Henry Green from whom Joseph Westmorland had puchased land. Joseph Westmorland was supposed to be the husband of Isabella Hicks who was the daughter of Capt. Robert Hicks. Capt. Hicks was, of course, in charge of the garrison at Ft. Christianna. Out of a little confusion concerning two Robert Hicks of that era and area we have the Indian trader Nathanial Hicks making his way out of southside Va. to S.C. and then to Ga. where he marries the daughter of Chief Broom of the Cherokees. This union would seem to produce two early 1800’s Priciple Chiefs of the Cherokee Nation, William and Charles Renatus Hicks.
This Henry Green line is said to have married into the Wall family with a daughter of Henry Green marrying Byrd Wall which, I believe, is the son of Joseph Wall. Joseph Wall, it appears, is mentioned in the 1747 Joseph Westmorland patent of his purchase from Henry Green. Is this Joseph Wall related to John Wall who was hired to remove and transport Indians to Fort Christianna?
Richard Green, the supposed brother of Henry Green, in 1769 sold 200 acres on the south side of the Nottoway River to Abraham Smith. This is supposed to be the brother of Richard Smith Jr. This Richard Smith is supposed to have been a “trader to the Cherikees.”
From the “Westover Journals” of Wm. Byrd; On mar. 5th, 1728, Byrd had 17 men meet him at Coratuck. “Accordingly, seventeen able hands were listed on the part of Virginia, who were most of them Indian traders and expert woodsmen. These men were ordered to come armed with a musket and a tomahawk…”
Names of the Men Employed on the Part of of Virginia to Run the Line Between That Colony and North Carolina; Peter Jones, Thomas Jones, Thomas Short, Robert Hix, John Evans, John Ellis, John Ellis Jr., Thomas Wilson, George Tilman, Charles Kimbal, Beorge Hamilton, Robert Allen, Thomas Jones Jr., James Petillo, Richard Smith, and John Rice.
Dan.
My many greats grandfather was Richard Smith who also lived in that area he had a son named Richard Smith Jr. I think you are probably referring to our Richard Smith Jr. in your post. He moved into Northampton County , NC before he died. If this is the same Richard Smith it is likely he had native blood. My ancestor Elizabeth Smith was his half sister (they had different mothers). Elizabeth’s children and grandchildren were called ito court in Bertie County to prove they were white. What this probably means is that someone called their parentage into question. Elizabeth married first Thomas Sessums who we are unsure who his mother was….then she married a Boon in Bertie County, NC. Elizabeth mother was the widow of George Blow we don’t know her surname. The Blows were benefactors to the Nottoway and to this day they still live near the Nottoway in Hertford County, NC. The Blows are considered mixed white and Nottoway. There are Blow family stories that state the children ran the fields and woods with Nottoway indians as early as 1660’s. The Nottoway came into contact with these white families as early as 1650. This would make a good case for that Richard Smith being our Richard Smith cause he lived among the Nottoway and probably learned how to be a good woodsman. Did you say he was a trader to the Cherokee? Now I find that interesting indeed. That also makes sense since the Cherokee were not “white” friendly so a mixed blood trader would be more to their liking I would think. And being Nottoway he would have been a Cherokee cousin of sorts. George Blow married Margaret in 1653 and when he died she married Richard Smith Sr. Everyone believes Margaret was a Nottoway(full blood). Richard Smith Sr. is believed to have been a white man. I think this is probably our Richard Smith Jr.
Linda
I want to correct a couple of things in my earlier post. It was Henry Green’s grand-nephew, Wm. Vaughan, that is supposed to have married Eliz. Wall, sister of Byrd Wall. It was Richard Green on Birchin Creek/Swamp with Henry Green described as just “north of the Nottoway River.”
My point was to show the interconnection of the Nottoway River families and their connections to the extensive Indian trade of that day. I think there is a story to be revealed there.
This story begins with Abraham Wood and the establishment of Fort Henry in 1645 and with those first trading families that moved on to the Nottoway, Meherrin, and Chowan Rivers and with Thomas Stegg, the uncle of Wm. Byrd, who had established trade with the Indians at the Falls of the James River. Inheriting his uncle’s business, Wm. Byrd, would lead the way for the settlement of the upper Roanoke River and it’s tributaries. That’s how I see it.
William Vaughan was a neighbor and relation of Henry and John Green of Great Buffalo Creek in present Mecklinburg Co. Va. His father was believed to be John Vaughan who is said to be the son of William Vaughan Sr. “Patent Granted to Wm. and Richard Vaughan Oct. 15, 1698, 280 acres Charles City Co. Va. west side of Muncusneck Main Swamp, a corner tree belonging to the land of William Low, a corner black oak standing on Hatchers Run…although this was additional adjoining land and not the exact same tract that Wm. Vaughan Sr, was granted in 1680. The later patents place the Vaughan land on Hatchers Run.” Rohoic Swamp, Hatchers Run, and Moncuseneck Creek are just southwest of present Petersburg Va. and the lands of Abraham Woods and Maj. Peter Jones. Maj. Jones had a son, Peter Jones, who had a son, Peter Jones III, that established an Indian trading house at present Petersburg Va. Maj. Peter Jones was the son-in-law of Abraham Wood and his granddaughter, Mary, through his son Peter, married Maj. Joshua Wynne. From what I’ve read, it appears that Maj. Peter Jones’ wife Margaret Wood married #1 Peter Jones, #2 John Banister (anthropologist, recorded the customs of the Indians) and #3 Stephen Cocke. This Stephen and Margaret Jones Cocke are said to have had a daughter Agnes that married a RICHARD SMITH. Is this true? Abraham Wood, in his will, referred to his Dinwiddie lands as Ronhorak, which he devised to his daughter, Mary Chamberlayne. His eldest grandson, Abraham Jones 1st, acquired Mary Wood Chamberlayne’s land. In addition, he confirmed his title by securing a patent for 1217 acres called The Indian Town Lands near one of the branches of Rohowick, in 1683 adjoining Gen. Woods Fort Lands. Abraham Wood Jones died about 1690 and his son Peter Jones II, of Henrico, inherited them. He sold the northern part of his Rohoic lands soon after reaching majority to RICHARD SMITH in 1719. This 200 acre tract was inherited by Edward Smith, son of RICHARD SMITH.
In 1740 an Indian trader from Amelia Co. Va. named Vaughan was in a packtrain to the Cherokee village of Tuckaleechee (present Townsend Tn) on the Little River which is now one of the western gates of the Smokey Mountain National Park. It is said he traveled there until the French and Indian War of 1754.
Dan.
Of course, this has probably already been posted elsewhere on this forum. It seems that South Carolina Indian Traders were having trouble with traders from Virginia circling around them and not being licensed by South Carolina.
From: The Colonial Records of South Carolina, Journal of the Cimmissioners of the Indian Trade
Mar. 22nd 1710/11, Sundry Indian Traders to take out licenses; …
Natha. Evans of Virginia, his bond.
Richd. Smith and Geo. Smith of Virginia, their bond
David Crawly, John Evans, and Richard Jones of Virginia, their bond.
Wm. Pettypoole, Thomas Edwards, and Henry Tally of Virginia, their bond.
Dan.
From the webpage of George Baumbach at http://www.mindspring.com/~baumbach/ppoole/ppoole3.htm we see that Wm. Pettypoole perhaps married Ann Smith which is probably the daughter or sister of Richard Smith. On the before mentioned list of Virginia traders, is this John Evans the father of Winifred Evans the wife of Capt. Robert Hicks?
In the info. on Mr. Baumbach’s page there are references to deeds that place these traders in the same community in the Moccoseneck Creek area in the 1680’s to 1720’s. Other neighbors ca. 1722 (as per the map on the Poythress family webpage, Survey of Prince George County by Robert Bolling) are William, Robert, and Thomas Poythress, Capt. Peter, Sloman, and Peter Wynne and William, Peter and Thomas Jones.
Of interest to me is the grandson of Wm. Pettypoole named William Massey/Mercy. In the early 1780’s my Green family had migrated to northeast Tenn. Adam Green, Richard Green, Isaac Green and my 5th greatgrandfather Benjamin Green had signed the petition to form Hawkins County from Sullivan. In the 1790’s a William Massey and Adam Green were killed by Chief Robert Benge at Powell’s Gap. After searching records for the Library of Congress, I came to the conclusion that they were the companions of a man named Cockrell/Cottrell and were the ones mentioned in Cockrells epic escape from Chief Benge. The dates matched. It is related by some that the Masseys had removed to N.C. and had been Indian traders.
Dan.
ok Dan you keep talking about my family. I decsend from this branch of Wynnes and Poythrees. Joshua Wynne had a brother named Thomas who married Agnes Stith. This is my direct branch. Thomas was an interpreter for the Nottoway and Meherrin. The Throwers and Malones were there also along the Sapponey Creek in Dinwiddle County. The Nottoway were also up in this area and further east and south in Southampton and Brunswick Counties. There are Wynnes today that are registered with the Mattaponi Indians of Virginia. Pocahantas was a Mattaponi. At any rate I have had contact with Buck Woodard of the Virginia Council of Indians through a fellow Nottoway. This fellow Nottoway has spoken to him of my lineage and he basically told me to contact the Mattaponi. They seem to think I decsend from several tribes that lived in Virginia at first contact with Europeans. The beautiful thing is I was born overlooking the James River in Newport News Virginia my immediate and many of my cousins and their families moved back and forth across the Virginia and North Carolina borders my whole childhood. My family is in that entire region….Newport News, VA, Chester, VA, Roanoke Rapids, NC, Enfield, NC, Cary,NC, Tarboro, NC, Macclesfield, NC, Nottoway County, VA, Chesapeake, VA, Smithfield, VA. With the largest concentration of them in Halifax County, NC, Edgecombe County, NC and the city of Newport News, VA. I know Hwy 13 between Edgecombe County and Newport News like the back of my hand I ahve traveled it so many times. That is my home. The home of my ancestors we have been there for over a thousand years.
Linda
Dan and Linda,
This is so Interesting!! I suspect that the Robert Allen on that list of 17 is in my line of Allen but may never prove it. Robert Jr. was in Lunenburg, then Brunswick and died in Caswell co NC. One of Robert Hicks daughters Elizabeth married thomas Lanier..daughter Catherine Lanier married David Allen and they were in Person co NC. Sylvanus Stokes I mentioned before that witnessed a deed within the Southampton deeds was married to Celia Walker, her sister was married to a Massey…there are too many Robert Allens to be sure I’m afraid. But there are enough other connections already and probably more to find. Sue J
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
